OmniTrader Forum
-
OmniTrader 2005 Technical Support
Sharing custom Chart Templates? |
^ Top | ||
RichardL![]() Posts: 134 Joined: 9/18/2004 ![]() | I guess many users have put together favourite Chart Templates which have indicators/systems which work well together. Could we share our own favourite combinations? Here's one I use. Just put in the Chart Templates directory and restart OmniTrader to pick it up. Would be great to hear from other users. Richard ![]() | |
^ Top | ||
Barry Cohen![]() Posts: 6338 Joined: 1/19/2004 ![]() | Good idea Richard! For anyone that needs help installing: Installation instructions: 1. Click on the template to download. 2. Then save the attachment into the C:\Program Files\Nirvana\OT2005\ChartTemplates folder or if you changed your default location, in the ?\Nirvana\OT2005\ChartTemplates folder. 3. Then restart OT. *These .otd files cannot be opened. They just need to be installed in the location above & then OT will show them in the template list.* | |
^ Top | ||
Flowta![]() Posts: 92 Joined: 1/12/2004 Location: Canberra Australia ![]() | Yes, I agree, an excellent suggestion Richard. I attach a template I have been playing with, that looks promising. It includes an idea for using Guppy GMMA and Keltner Channels together posted by Frank Birch on the club site (hope you dont mind Frank), so it requires guppy package. Gary ![]() | |
^ Top | ||
![]() This accout has been deleted | I wonder how many other profiles are scattered around the forum in various posts. They should be collected into a central folder. | |
^ Top | ||
Barry Cohen![]() Posts: 6338 Joined: 1/19/2004 ![]() | There are no other posted templates on this forum unless you count the default ones in the FAQ. | |
^ Top | ||
Frank Birch![]() Posts: 84 Joined: 12/29/2003 Location: UK ![]() | Gary, thank you for mentioning my name its nice to be reconised for my little bit of work. If you would like me to add the whole sequence of indicators to trading this method let me know? To have All the peices of the puzzle, always gives you the better picture in the end? Thanks again and happy trading, Frank B | |
^ Top | ||
RichardL![]() Posts: 134 Joined: 9/18/2004 ![]() | Hi Frank Sorry to jump in before Gary, but I'd very much appreciate your run-through on the interrelationship between the indicators & systems to maximise the use of the template. All the best Richard | |
^ Top | ||
Flowta![]() Posts: 92 Joined: 1/12/2004 Location: Canberra Australia ![]() | Hi Frank I think OT users would be really interested in your ideas, and the methods you use. I certainly was, so I incoprorated some of them into what I was doing. But an explanation from you, and maybe your template too, would be great. Gary | |
^ Top | ||
Jeff V![]() Posts: 8 Joined: 1/8/2004 Location: Greenville SC ![]() | I would certainly be interested in hearing about others templates and how they use them to make trades. I think its a great idea. jeff | |
^ Top | ||
Frank Birch![]() Posts: 84 Joined: 12/29/2003 Location: UK ![]() | Hi to all, Firstly you all must understand that i can only go so far with this as some of the information is under the Nirvana Club Banner,so i will give the best information to be used with OT2005. 1/ this whole set-up was made for the Forex Market in Real-Time,the symbols to trade are USD/CHF and USD/EURO because when one symbol goes long the other symbol will go short so in theroy you get one signal but enter 2 trades(which is pretty cool) 2/with the FX market it has nice moves every day to make a nice profit,so by trading with GUPPYS and KELTNERS you will be entering a trade to catch the meat in the middle(which in FX terms depending on the ADR) 3/You must have an understanding of compression and expansion of the GUPPY indicators to tell you how strong the trend is going tobe 4/if you use garrys set-up add the CCI indicator set to 50 periods and see how well they all corrosponed with the trend. 5/When the 3 EMA of the guppy set-up moves outside of the Keltner then look if the CCI has broke through the 0% line(the zero line acts as support and resistance) I have looked at this abit for use with End of Day but not alot(so have aplay and see if it might work for you) I will try and get snap shot to show you all, but my data feed is down! happy Trading Regards Frank Any questions,leave me a message and i will answer with my screen shot. | |
^ Top | ||
jamesey![]() Posts: 22 Joined: 8/7/2004 Location: Wassaic, New York ![]() | Hi Richard Like your chart template, and think sharing is a great idea!! Can you explain your template, or what you use as your strategies with this template?? Thanks!! Jim | |
^ Top | ||
RichardL![]() Posts: 134 Joined: 9/18/2004 ![]() | Hi Jim - happy to run through the template and strategies. Basically what I wanted to do was set up an automated notification system running EOD on Auto mode that emails me pdf prints of my charts for symbols with Buy/Sell for BT>99% and ADV>70%. I use Black Ice's excellent print2pdf email driver (www.blackice.com) as you can set it to print to a single defined email address with custom headers etc. You may have seen from my other posts that I run clutches of about 4-6 strategies per profile and run about 8 profiles (some signal, some mechanical) to cover a range of some 40-50 strategies (I don't duplicate use of strategies between profiles) and variants I've built up through both this forum and the Club. Each profile runs a subset of symbols restricted to only those that show 100% BT and FT before running for real without FT. All strategies are set to also exit after 14 days and Market on Open entries. Voting is by best strategy in the To Do. The idea is that whilst each strategy might not individually score more than 40-50% on a set of symbols, if you vote by best strategy with complementary strategies, the combined result can be much higher eg 75-80% on the reduced subset of symbols you allow after testing. So my chart template needed to be clear and uncluttered (less is more) to be readable in a pdf plot and catering for short-medium trade duration which is what I do (< 14 days in trade). Basically I got the info from Jeff Drake's excellent guides - Profiting with Indicators and also Confirmation Tactics. Do get them if you haven't already. Key point is to trade price, not indicators & treat none of the indicators as absolutes, just guides in concert with each other. Moving through the Chart top to bottom: 1. Pivots and VTL-B trend curves - these give me a sense for the trend movement. I plot my winning strategy votes on this plot too. 2. ADX - I love this indicator! - basically once it moves up over 40 you can be prepared for a major trend reversal. Not infallible but it hasn't yet let me down. 3. MOMentum and MACD/RSI - on these two together, watch for a broad gradient reversal on MOM in concert with a zero crossing on MACD for a trend reversal. I find MOM a bit coarse but the MACD system as well as MACD indicator mapped on it is again a great tool for the eye to follow. *these aren't strategy votes on this part*. (If you wanted to create more space you could probably lose the MOM plot.) 4. TRN - I'm looking for it to flatline trend up (100) or trend down (0) for confirmation 5. REL-STR - another favourite! - signals to buy into trend up indication when going up between 50 and 70 (but not over - thats overbought!) and short for trend down for 50 to 30 (but not over - thats oversold). This is a bit shorthand but do take a look at Jeff's guides which are very good. Hope this helps. BTW if I've got any of the above wrong, please someone do reply to tell me - I'm still learning :-) Richard | |
^ Top | ||
![]() This accout has been deleted | RichardL, Congrats on the idea of sharing templates.I printed out your post and started working on a system based on the info you wrote about using all as filters. When its good enough I'll post it. | |
^ Top | ||
RichardL![]() Posts: 134 Joined: 9/18/2004 ![]() | Scrappy that's great news! - let me know if there's anything I can do to help. Looking forward to the system all the best Richard | |
^ Top | ||
RichardL![]() Posts: 134 Joined: 9/18/2004 ![]() | I attach a slightly improved version of my original template. Basically, I've replaced MOM with a couple of ideas which I must give all credit to a recent post by Hussein (hope you don't mind Hussein) and which has been giving me excellent improved results. Essentially this uses DMI-C (8) in a pane and two Simple Moving Averages (15 and 50) the latter of which are on the price chart itself. In addition to my earlier post, the way to use the extended features is 1) Watch for confirmation buy/sell indicators from the DMI against the MACD system/indicator and your winning votes (and the other indicators - see my earlier post) AND 2) Consider trading if (in concert with the other confirmation indicators), the price is (for LONG) above the SMA 15 or (for SHORT) below BOTH the SMA 15 and SMA 50. Again, the idea isn't mine, but having added it to the chart, its made a big improvement to my success rate. All the best Richard ![]() | |
^ Top | ||
RichardL![]() Posts: 134 Joined: 9/18/2004 ![]() | I've been asked if I could send through an example plot. Attached is a pdf I ran off this morning of a potential trade I've been watching over the last few days & which hits most of the buttons. This is attached only as an example to illustrate the method, **please view it with the usual disclaimers ie its not a recommendation to invest etc etc.** Things to note: 1. The trade winning vote originates outside the backtest optimisation boundary. This is one reason I set my trades to stop < 14 days - otherwise I found that the system would keep long running optimised (hindsighted) trades in play inhibiting newer non-optimised opportunities from appearing. The actual strategy is one that doesn't use weekly "look-forward" confirmation (this behaviour gets a bad press due to potential hindsight issues). 2. The ADX has two maxima, the second, outside the backtest boundary is the one to watch, signalling a possible reversal aligning with the other indicators. 3. The winning vote aligns with the similar DMI and MACD signals/indicators 4. REL STR is ascending from 30 and through 50 on the reinforcement votes but not exceeding 70 The reason I didn't enter this trade though is that the price (LONG) was less than the SMA 15 (although subsequent reinforcement votes took place when price exceeded the SMA 15 I try not to enter trades on reinforcement signals). Its quite a nice example. Not perfect by any means but I thought it would be helpful to put something on the forum as a discussion plot. As before, please do comment, let me know if there's any features I've got wrong (or missed ones that are right :-) all the best Richard ![]() | |
^ Top | ||
Jeff V![]() Posts: 8 Joined: 1/8/2004 Location: Greenville SC ![]() | Thanks richard, it great being able to see it at the same time you explain it. Looks great thanks for the info. jvp | |
^ Top | ||
jamesey![]() Posts: 22 Joined: 8/7/2004 Location: Wassaic, New York ![]() | Thanks Richard for the templates!! Excellent, and the newer one is even better! They are so easy to use...great visual aid for better trading. I hope I can share also. Jim | |
^ Top | ||
![]() This accout has been deleted | Having some trouble creating the strategy off the template still working on it hitting about 50% and paper trading it will keep up the work.I would like a few people to test this one and share what indicators that would help all who use OT.Please Test and Verify before just buying on any signal. | |
^ Top | ||
Barry Cohen![]() Posts: 6338 Joined: 1/19/2004 ![]() | Excellent Scrappy. For any that want to download this & any other .ots files: Installation instructions: 1. Click on the strategy to download. 2. Then save the attachment into the C:\Program Files\Nirvana\OT2005\Strategies folder or if you changed your default location, in the ?\Nirvana\OT2005\Strategies folder. 3. Then restart OT. *These .ots files cannot be opened. They just need to be installed in the location above & then OT will show them in the trading strategies list.* | |
^ Top | ||
![]() This accout has been deleted | Richard, This is a progress report.Take a look if you will.I'm studing some indicators to help find the best settings will keep trying. ![]() | |
^ Top | ||
![]() This accout has been deleted | Scrappy. Thanks for making the strategy available. I have been working with it but cannot acheive better than 55% FT on longs using OEX as my base. I changed the MA <> filter to 89 as that seems to work a little better for my style. Curious to know what symbol list you used for your reports. Does anyone have a good reason as to why the BT is always significantly better then the FT? | |
^ Top | ||
![]() This accout has been deleted | The Forward Test uses the optimize settings of the backtest without changing for the forward test.It allows one to compare different settings on strategies. The lisy of symbols is one I put together over the years and trade. After talking with Barry all test will now be on the RT50 profile in OT which has different Indexes. If you dont have the books by Jeff Drake I would advise one to take a look at getting them. | |
^ Top | ||
RichardL![]() Posts: 134 Joined: 9/18/2004 ![]() | I use strategies slightly differently. I test on BT 250 FT 250 first, delete those symbols that result in BT<100% FT <100% and rerun for trading with BT 250 FT 0. Here are the results for the Scrappy strategy (renamed Scrappy1 - I forgot if the original had an nbar stop - mine always do) reattached - for these two scenarios. Unsurprisingly, the BT250 FT 0 run has very good results since the poorly performing symbols were culled from the greater list! But the idea is that in actual running, you are working with symbols for whom the strategy is working - at least in test. You can't expect one strategy to fit all symbols. These symbols were FTSE 250 and monthly optimised. all the best Richard ![]() ![]() ![]() | |
^ Top | ||
RichardL![]() Posts: 134 Joined: 9/18/2004 ![]() | After chatting off-line with Scrappy - here is the revised strategy. I made some changes to the filters' settings and ran for test on up to 28th April S&P500 using BT250 FT 250, reduced to the symbols with BT100% FT100% and reran on up to 29th April data using BT250 FT 0. All results attached plus revised strategy. Monthly opt, best strategy voting. Comments, amend/edits and feedback very welcome. Best regards Richard ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | |
^ Top | ||
Flowta![]() Posts: 92 Joined: 1/12/2004 Location: Canberra Australia ![]() | Guys You might want to recheck the results of this strategy after removing the Next Pivot Point Stop. Im not sure this is a tradeable stop. It is useful for strategy entry comparisons, but, it takes time to detect the 'next pivot point', so results based on trades that detect this stop when it occurs are questionable. :( Gary | |
^ Top | ||
![]() This accout has been deleted | Gary, Thank you for your input! We need all we can get the plan is to receive as much as possible to create a Strategey all can benefit from. What stop do you use to exit or how do you decide to exit? Any input on adding or changing setpoints is welcome or just update and post is good toThe strategy is based on Ral Template. | |
^ Top | ||
Flowta![]() Posts: 92 Joined: 1/12/2004 Location: Canberra Australia ![]() | Hi Scrappy Sorry to take so long to respond, Ive been travelling this week. A difficult question to answer, for two reasons. First, the more I look at trading the more I suspect that exits are the really hard part. To date I have been looking at medium to longer term trend trading. The philosophy I am developing for my own trading is a reasonably tight (position sizing determined) stop on entry, following that up quickly as the position moves up (and of course they always do :) to a break even level, and from then on I follow up more gradually to a wider stop level to allow the position to breathe. I never move a stop down. So far, this has seen me take approx 45% losing trades, about 45% small winners, and the remainder as reasonable returns. That was in a rising market (recently changed). With a longer time frame, getting in to and staying with that 10% is the objective. So a combination of strict and trailing stops is indicated. As well as the canned OT stops, using reversing signals, and plugging in a separate system (or two) to the orders bar are extremely useful ways to create 'additional' stops in OT (if you have the full strategies editor). I also fiddle with developing some of my own systems using the SDK, and some of these have potential as stops. But I wont make these generally available because I consider them as my contribution to other Nirvana Club members, many of whom have also contributed Club material for members. So the experiments I usually run for stops are along the lines above. One final point Scrappy that may or may not be useful, I usually try to have all my development (stops and entires) based on fully non optimised systems. This gives me a clear basis for comparing approaches. Thats not to say that I wouldnt turn some limited optimisation on later once I was happy with the basic system if I thought it useful. Hope this helps Scrappy Gary | |
^ Top | ||
![]() This accout has been deleted | Gary, Thanks for your reply.I use Trailing stops on allmost all trades once a trade turns to a gain I set and forget. I have built a program based on Boolean Logic - True / False statements so I understand that there are some things which are not for all. What we try to do is just help out. I love to sit here and build and test strategys its something I enjoy doing I have built and Traded several which do very well with indicators and comfirmation! The strategy Richard and I worked on works well if filtered as in Richards post I like how he runs his test then removes less than 90% forward testing improved results. Well if theres any things you would like to share theres a lot of users reading this section. Thank you so much for your input :) | |
^ Top | ||
CSekhar![]() Posts: 69 Joined: 5/19/2005 Location: Oakville, Ontario, Canada ![]() | Originally written by 254854 on 4/6/2005 11:45 AM Hi to all, Firstly you all must understand that i can only go so far with this as some of the information is under the Nirvana Club Banner,so i will give the best information to be used with OT2005. 1/ this whole set-up was made for the Forex Market in Real-Time,the symbols to trade are USD/CHF and USD/EURO because when one symbol goes long the other symbol will go short so in theroy you get one signal but enter 2 trades(which is pretty cool) 2/with the FX market it has nice moves every day to make a nice profit,so by trading with GUPPYS and KELTNERS you will be entering a trade to catch the meat in the middle(which in FX terms depending on the ADR) 3/You must have an understanding of compression and expansion of the GUPPY indicators to tell you how strong the trend is going tobe 4/if you use garrys set-up add the CCI indicator set to 50 periods and see how well they all corrosponed with the trend. 5/When the 3 EMA of the guppy set-up moves outside of the Keltner then look if the CCI has broke through the 0% line(the zero line acts as support and resistance) I have looked at this abit for use with End of Day but not alot(so have aplay and see if it might work for you) I will try and get snap shot to show you all, but my data feed is down! happy Trading Regards Frank Any questions,leave me a message and i will answer with my screen shot. Hello Frank: I read with interest your posting (above). It is a surprise coincidence that I was looking for something on Forex and happen to come across your posting. I trade Forex with FXCM and I see great potential in it, not only to make money for self but also to run a business of making money for others. I am aiming for that possibility. Forex is sure a huge mkt and there are many who would participate with money if there is a suitable trading approach. I would like to discuss this with you and see whether your trading template is suitable for the task. Even though I am in trading (Mostly futures and commodities) and curriencies, I am new to OmniTrader. I have been using TradeStation for the past 14 years. I used OmniTrader in 1990s and made some good money. It was lot simpler system at that time. Let us talk. -Chandra Sekhar | |
^ Top | ||
Adrian![]() Posts: 44 Joined: 6/30/2005 Location: Cambridge UK ![]() | I have tried Richard.ots from this thread and found it to be an excellent strategy, however new problems have arised. (1) The appearance of an 'out of bounds' error with OT2005 v3 (2) Can't use the richard.ots strategy at all with OT2005 v4 (3) Omnitrader support claims they cannot edit the strategy to even try to correct it- hence it has been sent to the developers! Richard, any ideas on how to move past this hurdle? Adrian | |
^ Top | ||
RichardL![]() Posts: 134 Joined: 9/18/2004 ![]() | Hi Adrian I've been using the strategy regularly over the last few months but it bombed out on the latest OT release. From various posts I understand the developers are about to release an update to 4 which is a fix all the best Richard | |
^ Top | ||
Adrian![]() Posts: 44 Joined: 6/30/2005 Location: Cambridge UK ![]() | Hi Richard, I wish to say many thanks for the posts yourself and scrappy have placed on the forum. I think I have learned more from your posts, and testing richard.ots than from any other OT source! Thankfully richard.ots now works with the latest version of OT2005! I say thankfully because Omnitrader indicates it outperforms (FTSE under general conditions) all other trading strategies I have tried including iTLB ! I have a couple of questions: (1) I remember that yourself and scrappy were happy with iTLB: What conditions did you choose to make it work effectively? ie was it with or without confirmation or did it require considerable culling of stocks before it would perform? Without culling I get poor performance of the iTLB strategies in general - I'm just investigating the consequence of culling. (2) I am confused regarding the usage of confirmation. Surely confirmation can be incoporated into the strategy ??? So far my findings suggests the need for confirmation depends on the quality of the strategy. For example Richard.ots has a very desirable property: Without stock culling, positive values for the 250 day BT and FT far outweigh the number of negative values. To me it seems a 'risk' to start confirming these trades manually as there is no validation from the BT or FT? (in fact I tried confirmation via RAL2 and it degraded my profit!) Whereas OT default strategy does not have this desirable property: It would need confirmation in my view (I haven't tried this yet). Best regards, Adrian | |
^ Top | ||
Adrian![]() Posts: 44 Joined: 6/30/2005 Location: Cambridge UK ![]() | Richard, I'd like to share the idea of this strategy: it is still in its early stages and may be very close in concept to posts by yourself and others. It is not thoroughly tested, but more a notion I will report back on. The main difference is that while trading *both* the 250day Fowardtest and 250day Backtest are running to indicate hit rate deviations 'online'. The approach would function as a day by day stock 'schizophrenia detector' by comparing the hit rates of a 250day(or other) FT and BT, assuming enough hits (say>5 over 250days) for believable stats. I currently have to do this comparison manually (If OT produced a flag to indicate a schizoid stock based on large deviations between the FT and BT hitrate, that would be really nice). In practise the idea (untested due to a labmode bug- but I can see the potential in the numbers) would be to calculate the dynamic ratio of the FTHR/BTHR as a confirming signal. The closer to 1 the better the trade for that day. The initial disatisfaction with this idea is that one is using data that was optimised 250days ago. However my argument would be that IF the 250day FT is consistent with 250day BT, we've demonstrated optimisation IS still current, AND also obtained prewarning of schizoid stock before financial damage. It's partly a response to my concern that after culling stock groups that fit specific strategies - a very clever approach suggested by yourself - there *may* still be a need for the fit to be retested and revised? Is this every year, 6 months etc..I have no idea? If it is a long period of time the confirming indicator I am suggesting, may be unecessary. Finally I have been testing Omnitrader for the last month so I am unaware of many subtleties, and am 'all ears' as to whether I should radically alter the above approach. Best regards, Adrian | |
^ Top | ||
CSekhar![]() Posts: 69 Joined: 5/19/2005 Location: Oakville, Ontario, Canada ![]() | Hi Richard, I happen to see a strategy developed by you (NOT chart Template) and posted somewhere in this forum. Could you tell me where I can find it? Also, customer support at OT says the strategy gives error message in their latest version of OT. (release 4B). Thanks. -Chandra | |
^ Top | ||
RichardL![]() Posts: 134 Joined: 9/18/2004 ![]() | Sure - its post #6494 on page 1 of this thread (written by Scrappy from my template post) richard.ots Cheers Richard | |
^ Top | ||
RichardL![]() Posts: 134 Joined: 9/18/2004 ![]() | Hi Adrian thanks for the very kind comments although to be honest I soaked up Jeff's books on Chart patterns and also some postings in the club forum. To tell you the truth, I am a bit jaundiced on the effectiveness of FT testing because: 1. on purely mechanical wholly non-optimised systems - you'd expect FT% to be roughly equal to BT% but it never is (looking at each strategy separately, ie outside All Systems Voting) 2. for good prospecting results, you need optimising systems which always skews to good BT and not very good FT typically - curve fitting at its best. But in any case, the FT test is not "for real" testing **unless you fix the backtest period absolute date range and don't use All Systems Voting **- you need true walk forward testing (THE most desirable OT future plug in EVER!) to give valid results that you'd hopefully experience in trading for real. Thats the only way I believe you can truly calibrate good strategies. Horribly time consuming to do manually, and just the thing OT could do automatically if one day configured to be able to On the questions (1) I like iTLB - any pattern in price or indicator/system is a good thing (for me) although have to be careful not to rely on connected underlying phenomena that therefore reinforce each other. I cull stocks purely because I don't think one strategy (as opposed to a superstrategy) can do all possible symbols - just not realistic. The usual number of internal parameters wouldn't be enough to fit the curves I think. (2) Confirmation, as I understand it is either you look for similar patterns in another symbol eg FTSE100 curve to confirm eg general rise for a suspected LONG opp on one of the FTSE100 symbols or Confirmation from other systems or indicators deriving from price/vol etc data on the SAME symbol. What we tried to do with the strategy, was to embody the eyeball confirmation tests we were applying to the Chart reported at the start of this thread but automatically, to present candidates which therefore already fitted the bill. cheers Richard | |
^ Top | ||
CSekhar![]() Posts: 69 Joined: 5/19/2005 Location: Oakville, Ontario, Canada ![]() | Richard: This is regarding your famous strategy, 'Richard.ots'. Congrtulations for a great job! I see you have used four filters and allowed "any" for "Entry Filter Consensus". Can you explain what is the significance in using "any"? Is there any additional benefit in this "any" option compared to "60%" for the same filters? Thank you. -Chandra | |
^ Top | ||
RichardL![]() Posts: 134 Joined: 9/18/2004 ![]() | Hi - to be honest, Scrappy did a lot of the work on this - due credit - I guess originally the intention was to get any of the four criteria to allow a signal through. In practice, I was looking for key indicators, like ADX as a primary, and others as shown in the template as a secondary confirmation- so this approach suited me. Also not all confirmations were expected to be 1 or 2 bar concurrent and I didn't want to slacken contemporary signals too much by having to have too wide eg a 10 bar window lookback. For that reason also I didn't go for the 60% setting because again it would rely on everything happening relatively concurrently. cheers Richard | |
^ Top | ||
![]() This accout has been deleted | After reading the post about Richard.ots Who has a template and instructions on how it's used let US not stop at Scrappy.ots, Richard.ots .Strategies created help all the OT family so if there's someone out there with some ideas feel free to share. Richard thanks for the acknowledgment. | |
^ Top | ||
CSekhar![]() Posts: 69 Joined: 5/19/2005 Location: Oakville, Ontario, Canada ![]() | Hello Richard and Hello Scrappy: I address this email to both of you because, both of you have contributed for a good strategy. Thanks for the great work, here are a couple of concerns. 1. You have shown us all a great strategy!, now, why do you Scrappy asking others to post any available strategies developed by them? Why? Yours is a good one! Why don't you (us) just trade it? Why look for another one? Are we traders (you too) are obsessed with finding a holy grail and will never stop until we find one? Now, how is your strategy (Richard.ots / Scrappy.ots) is fairing in real tradig? Is it making money? It looks pretty good for both back testing and forward testing! Richard, how did you produce 100% in both BT and FT? Amazing! Please, both of you, give us how the system has faired in real-life trading. | |
^ Top | ||
RichardL![]() Posts: 134 Joined: 9/18/2004 ![]() | Hi The original thread was started to share Chart Templates that suit the poster's trading. Then we got requests to describe our trading methods to go along with the templates posted. Then it kindof moved to developing strategies to automatically pull out opportunities that were already pre-qualified to suit the posted Template/Trading method. Couple of things therefore - I don't think we as a group of users have even scratched the surface on whats really possible & would therefore *really* appreciate others' views & thoughts on what works for them, in the same way. Also I don't use the strategy exclusively, its part of a clutch of ones I use in different profiles, each with hopefully optimised restricted sets of symbols that historically worked well with them (hence the BT FT cull). Please don't believe 100% BT and 100% FT other than in the context that the symbols that gave that result *that day* were a culled list that had specifically resulted from a reduction to the set of symbols that gave those stats (on the basis of moving forward, you'd have more chance that those symbols, at least in the short term < 1 month, would continue to work well). I bet that testing again a few days forward would have different stats. Thats why I honestly believe that a true *walk-forward* tester module is the *only* way to really find out how the systems perform "for real". My current approach, as reported in this thread and other postings, is for me only a poor second to walk-forwarding. I get variable results with richard.ots not least because I have the poor habit to try and second guess it & therefore not likely to get rich till I learn to trade better :-) All the best Richard | |
^ Top | ||
CSekhar![]() Posts: 69 Joined: 5/19/2005 Location: Oakville, Ontario, Canada ![]() | Richard: This time, I am writing about your template (not about your Strategy). In your template, you have used ADX indicator and DMI system. I am just curious why you did not use ADX system? it would have given you both ADX plot and DMI trading signals! It is not of a great difference, but, academically curious to know whether you have any preference. Thanks. -Chandra | |
^ Top | ||
RichardL![]() Posts: 134 Joined: 9/18/2004 ![]() | Hi - no reason, just grabbed what came to hand first to get it up and running :-) best Richard | |
^ Top | ||
![]() This accout has been deleted | Hello, As said not asking for a Strategy to be posted but the Template on which one uses to trade from. Everyone I know trades a little different some use various Indicators and some guess buy the chart itself. I used Scrappy.ots for a while before posting and have done well I still use it as of now I just dont use the Stop portion I use a Trailing Profit Exit within my Trading Platform. I'm useing Richard.ots in a Trading contest for about a month or so I started late but catching up Fast in 80th place but started at 487. I have used it In my account and done good but I Study the chart more than anything. I have built a Candle.ots but still needs some bugs worked out. | |
^ Top | ||
CSekhar![]() Posts: 69 Joined: 5/19/2005 Location: Oakville, Ontario, Canada ![]() | Hi I noticed that none of the systems in Richard.ots is checked for optimization. You and Richard must have a valid reason for that. -Chandra | |
^ Top | ||
RichardL![]() Posts: 134 Joined: 9/18/2004 ![]() | I think we wanted to see how it worked without the benefit of optimisation - that way, you know you can increase performance afterwards by switching it on, but at least you don't get changing signals (from that aspect of the design) while checking it out. Richard | |
^ Top | ||
Adrian![]() Posts: 44 Joined: 6/30/2005 Location: Cambridge UK ![]() | Richard - you mentioned "I don't think we as a group of users have even scratched the surface on whats really possible "... Does this mean multiple strategies on culled symbols may yield to a superior Richard2.ots strategy? Which specific aspects of richard.ots would Scrappy and yourself you like to improve? I'm still puzzled as to why richard.ots works so well!! What do you think is key to its superior performance? After testing all of Nirvana's strategies supplied with OT2005 plus iTLB, I think Nirvana should take a keen look at the concepts in richard.ots with a view to later OT releases !!! Adrian ps I have a lot of work to do to catch up with you guys! | |
^ Top | ||
RichardL![]() Posts: 134 Joined: 9/18/2004 ![]() | Actually lots of possibilities - for instance I'm at the moment running a "top five" contest between my strategies. Starting from no 1, I'm running a 250;250 BT FT to eliminate the bottom 5 FT hit rate strategies from a clutch of 10. Then adding another 5 in and repeating. Doing over successive days & not worried about the floating backtest period. When I run out of strategies, repeat from beginning always with the aim to have top 5 FT performers in play. Use these top 5 on a BT 250, FT 0 run. Ideally the performance overall FT% report should be able (it can't yet) indicate degree of overlap between FT on individual strategies as I really want 100% overall hit rate over all my symbols with the best mix/spread of strategies. No way to tell at the moment easily if I'm getting a lot of coverage overlap from similar strategies without delving into individual symbol reports. Richard | |
^ Top | ||
dzolnik![]() Posts: 1 Joined: 2/9/2005 ![]() | Hey Richard, I have been playing around with your Richard strategy and cannot seem to get it to work. It worked fine the other day, however I now get a error message stating something like " the object is not referenced.....". I called support and they told me to update to 4C update and re-download the strategy. Have you been having the same problem? Just curiuos because it seemed like a great strategy. Thanks Doug | |
^ Top | ||
RichardL![]() Posts: 134 Joined: 9/18/2004 ![]() | Hi Doug I and others had a problem a while back but the one of the latest updates cured it. I think it was an RSI filter issue from memory. Certainly no probs with 4C. Best Richard | |
^ Top | ||
J![]() Posts: 2 Joined: 12/9/2003 Location: Corvallis, OR ![]() | Within the last few days Richard.ots will not function with 2005-4H. With Richared.ots installed the other .ots's will not function and upon closing an error message is generated. Any ideas? J | |
^ Top | ||
RichardL![]() Posts: 134 Joined: 9/18/2004 ![]() | Sorry - maybe support can help with the debug log Richard | |
^ Top | ||
J![]() Posts: 2 Joined: 12/9/2003 Location: Corvallis, OR ![]() | Thanks for your reply. I am using richard.ots (488KB) from Post 6494. Is this the correct file? J | |
^ Top | ||
RichardL![]() Posts: 134 Joined: 9/18/2004 ![]() | thats the one. I wish I could help you further but there have been a number of releases of OT2005/6 since my strategy was released so Support is your best bet. Regards Richard | |
^ Top | ||
CSekhar![]() Posts: 69 Joined: 5/19/2005 Location: Oakville, Ontario, Canada ![]() | Hi Richard: I studied with interest your strategy, Richard.ots some time back. I am looking at it now with some more knowledge of OT and of market. Have you further worked on it? Thank you. -Chandra Sekhar | |
^ Top | ||
RichardL![]() Posts: 134 Joined: 9/18/2004 ![]() | Hi - I have dusted it off recently but not done anything significant. All the best Richard | |
^ Top | ||
fiore![]() Posts: 4 Joined: 2/18/2006 Location: artogne(BRESCIA) italia ![]() | who is that know download quotes from downloadquotes.com in omnitrader 2005 stock? please thanks | |
^ Top | ||
CSekhar![]() Posts: 69 Joined: 5/19/2005 Location: Oakville, Ontario, Canada ![]() | Hi Richard. In your popular posting of the strategy Richard.ots (postin 6494) can you tell me how did you "reduced the symbols with BT 100% FT 100%"? Thanks. -Chandra | |
^ Top | ||
![]() This accout has been deleted | CSekhar, In the focus list is a symbol somthing like a funnel click on it and a box will appear set the settings in Criteria. Chapter 3 of the Omnitrader user guide has a lot of info you might find important(To set the filter the way you prefer) ![]() | |
^ Top | ||
CSekhar![]() Posts: 69 Joined: 5/19/2005 Location: Oakville, Ontario, Canada ![]() | Thanks for your response. Here is my problem: Richard ran his strategy on sp500 with BT=250/FT=250. Out of the resulted list, he selected those symbols with BTHR=100% & FTHR=100%. This filtered and has reduced his list. Now, on this filtered list, he ran his strategy with BT=250/FT=0. Now he must have ended up with a smalle list. This is what I want to do. So, (i) I ran the strategy on sp500. (ii) I went to funel and set BTHR = 100. It filtered my list to ONLY those with BTHR=100. (iii) Next, I went to funnel and set FTHR = 100. This further reduced the list to those symbols that have BTHR=100 AND FTHR=100. (iv) Now,I tried to run my strategy ONLY on this list with BT=250 and FTHR=0. But the strategy runs on all 500 symbols of SP500 (unfiltered, original list of SP500).. I do not want it to run on all 500 symbols of SP500. I just want the strategy to run on those symbols which secured BTHR=100 and FTHR=100. How can I do this? -Chandra. | |
^ Top | ||
RichardL![]() Posts: 134 Joined: 9/18/2004 ![]() | Hi - just saw the thread. The answer is very easy. Once you have run the BT 250 FT 250, leave the funnel unset (no filter) in the focus list. Order by BT% descending and then FT% descending. Select all symbols in your list which do not match 100% on both BT and FT and choose the "remove symbols" from the focus list menu. This then leaves just a list of symbols passing the 100% test. Now run with BT 250, FT 0 on that reduced set. All the best Richard | |
^ Top | ||
CSekhar![]() Posts: 69 Joined: 5/19/2005 Location: Oakville, Ontario, Canada ![]() | No, the answer is not that simple. Once I finish analysis with BT=250/FT=250, I double-click on the title BTHR. Sure I get the list in decending order from BTHR=100% and down. The problem comes now. At this stage where all the symbols with BTHR=100% at the top of the list, if I double-click on the column head of FTHR, sure it sorts the list in its own decending order from 100%, but it does not retain the earlier decending order of the BTHR. So, I cannot get a list of symbols with both BTHR=100% and FTHR=100%. Thanks again. -Chandra | |
^ Top | ||
CSekhar![]() Posts: 69 Joined: 5/19/2005 Location: Oakville, Ontario, Canada ![]() | Hi Richard: Here is another point of view that I think you should give thought to. After your first run (BT=250/FT=250), why don't you just sort the list for adviser rating (ADV)and just pick only those with high advisor rating for second run with BT=250/FT=0? Don't you think the ADV rating takes into account BTHR and FTHR?Just a thought though. -Chandra | |
^ Top | ||
RichardL![]() Posts: 134 Joined: 9/18/2004 ![]() | No - it is easy, just delete any stocks which havent BT 100% then delete anything remaining which doesn't have FT 100% Best regards Richard | |
^ Top | ||
CSekhar![]() Posts: 69 Joined: 5/19/2005 Location: Oakville, Ontario, Canada ![]() | Ah! that would work! After sorting for BT100, delete all that comes below BT=100. Then sort the remaining on FT100 and delete all that come below FT=100!! It should work! Thanks. -Chandra Now, how about my second posting (re: ADv. Rating)? | |
^ Top | ||
RichardL![]() Posts: 134 Joined: 9/18/2004 ![]() | The ADV rating is a measure of systems in agreement ON THE CURRENT VOTED SIGNAL within a single strategy as I understand it. So the measure you see is that of the winning strategy on the current voted signal. But when you run multiple strategies (to cover a wide variety of possible stocks well), the All Strategies Voting (ASV) measure is used to rate strategies over all past & current votes within the test boundary. The best one "wins" and its signals are allowed through to the vote line. The BT and FT hit rates are meaningful in measuring the degree of "fit" to the personalities of the shares and the measure is that of the degree of success of OT harnessing the groups of strategies (ie a higher meta-measure than ADV). Others will be able to say this better than I do here, but this is my reasoning best regards Richard | |
^ Top | ||
CSekhar![]() Posts: 69 Joined: 5/19/2005 Location: Oakville, Ontario, Canada ![]() | That is good explination,Richard, on why I cannot use Adv.Rating when I use multiple strategies! Thank you. At last, I am able to run your BT=250/FT=250 and cull BTHR=100/FTHR=100 symbols!! But, now, (i) what is the benefit of running another analysis on this culled list with BT=250/FT=0 instead of using it as it is? One more question: (ii) Can we run BT=0/FT=250 instead of the BT=250/FT=0? Does it make any difference? In both cases, we are refering to the same data whether we call it BT or FT! Just curious to konw the difference. Thanks. -Chandra | |
^ Top | ||
RichardL![]() Posts: 134 Joined: 9/18/2004 ![]() | as I understand it: (i) more up to date data, instead of the Back Test being between 1-2 years old, it is 0-1 year old with BT 250, FT 0 (rather than BT 250, FT 250) since the FT test does not push it back 250bars=1year further into the past. Recent data is considered better in the event that the "personality of the stock" is changeable in >1 year periods (for 250 bars settings) (ii) the BT usually invokes optimisation, either overtly or otherwise (eg the ASV test which cherry picks strategies based on their results) in the strategies to fix optimal settings (and choices of strategy) based on data in the BT period, whereas the FT uses those fixed settings in the same strategies when they process FT data. ie its not usually the same. You can tell this by looking at the % hit rate using performance reports on BT 250 and FT 250 over different date settings for "non-optimising" ie mechanical strategies You would anticipate BTHR% and FTHR% to be roughly equal always for so-called non optimising or mechanical systems but they seldom are in practice indicating that there is some difference occurring in test/use which introduces asymmetry in the results. Again my understanding which is empirical. best Richard | |
^ Top | ||
TRENDERMAN![]() Posts: 14 Joined: 7/29/2005 Location: CICERO,NY 13039 ![]() | hello RichardL . I'm a newer user to omnitrader,trying to help my family income, and have been very interested in your strategy. I ran a report on my symbols list using your stategy and it showed a @70% HIT RATE. My frustration with omnitrader has been the optimization,you never can get an accurate backtest and signals change on me. my question to you is will your signals on this strategy change also. I would hope this message doesn't disturb you . You sound very famaliar with omnitrader and would appreciate your thoughts.thank you, tony | |
^ Top | ||
RichardL![]() Posts: 134 Joined: 9/18/2004 ![]() | Thanks Tony To be honest, you have to separate out the two key functions of OT, one being prospection and the other managing a placed trade. On prospection, unless you run a mechanical system with no optimisation (be careful in the way that OT deals with multiple strategies using All Signals Voting also), you will use optimisation carefully knowing that the systems are trying to tune to the most recent data. As events change, bars update, inevitably those systems will reflect the changed circumstances in different (possibly) signals between observations. You have to take a balanced view at the time the bar is complete whether to place a trade on the results of that prospection run. The system isn't telling you its a great trade (ie certainty right up to exit), its saying its a great entry signal (ie possibility) Once you've decided to place the trade, OT can then be used, via the trade plan, to manage the trade & reduce risk, emotion etc in the way you've set it up. Thats also why the portfolio helpfully offers to switch off optimisation for trades in trade. Sorry to labour the point, but these two functions I mention at the beginning are quite separate in OT functionality and use (for me at least) My own strategy was based on reviewing Jeff Drake's excellent booklets on reviewing charts. I designed a chart template (posted in this thread) to address these and the strategy to pick up only those stocks which fitted the charts I wanted to see (so I didn't have to scroll through the whole list). Glad the hit rate remains high but to be honest you have to read Jeff's books & understand what to look for in the charts to see its full benefit. Not every signal is going to be a good one. all the best Richard |