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OmniTrader 2017 General Discussion
Autotrade - Voteline Discrepancy
Last Activity 7/26/2018 8:44 PM
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John J

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Subject : Autotrade - Voteline Discrepancy
Posted : 8/9/2017 12:32 AM
Post #42325

Hi Barry,

I just want to point your attention to something that I have observed on numerous occasions in a 5M intraday profile (paper account). The tradeplan uses BOC for the entry, and regular Market Orders for the stops.

Screenshot #1 shows a trade, which was closed at 7:30 PM by Autotrade. Screenshot #2 shows that the very same trade was closed 55 minutes later at 8:25 PM on the Voteline. Is there anything that can be done to ensure that Autotrade and Voteline are in sync?
Obviously, the consequence here is that Autotrade is unable to execute another trade as long as the previous trade is still open on the Voteline. 55 Minutes on a 5M chart is a long time....







[Edited by John J on 8/9/2017 1:31 AM]

Attached file : Capture2.JPG (61KB - 406 downloads)
Attached file : Capture1.JPG (143KB - 458 downloads)

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John J

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Subject : RE: Autotrade - Voteline Discrepancy
Posted : 8/16/2017 12:22 PM
Post #42339 - In reply to #42325

Hi Barry,

Just wondering whether you have had a chance to look into this? Once a trade is exited it needs to trigger an exit on the voteline as well. It shouldn't matter whether the trade was placed in a paper account or with an actual broker...
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Barry Cohen

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Subject : RE: Autotrade - Voteline Discrepancy
Posted : 8/16/2017 3:00 PM
Post #42346 - In reply to #42339

To be clear, AutoTrade has nothing to do with exits. AutoTrade only enters new trades. The one exception to this is the AutoTrade setting to "Close trades at end time". But once AutoTrade has placed an order, it is then up to the trade plan to follow its course. You would see the same thing if you had submitted the trade plan manually.

There are things we can do though that should allow you to get the voteline & trade plan to more closely synch up. Can you post the trade plan you're using so I can take a look at it?

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John J

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Subject : RE: Autotrade - Voteline Discrepancy
Posted : 8/16/2017 4:04 PM
Post #42350 - In reply to #42325

Hi Barry,

You may use any Strat/Tradeplan, which is placing lots of trades in a 5 minute timeframe. Then just monitor the execution of trades, and compare that to the voteline.

So far I have only observed this in the E-Minies, but I suspect the same thing occurs in any intraday stock profile as well. I will run more tests tomorrow morning after the market opens to confirm, though.


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Barry Cohen

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Subject : RE: Autotrade - Voteline Discrepancy
Posted : 8/16/2017 4:38 PM
Post #42352 - In reply to #42350

Trade plans have different stops, parameters, order types, etc. It would help to see your trade plan or I can only speculate.
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John J

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Subject : RE: Autotrade - Voteline Discrepancy
Posted : 8/17/2017 2:41 PM
Post #42357 - In reply to #42352

Hi Barry,

I ran some tests using the RTStocks profile (5M) and the ACT RT Strat (right out of the box).

Screenshot #2 shows the Position History from the beginning of the test. The 3 first trades (MDLZ, GDX, NUGT) exited pretty much at the same time on the Voteline. However, the APC trade was still open on the Voteline some 25 minutes after it was closed in the Portfolio Window. I'd say this is a pretty serious issue!





[Edited by John J on 8/17/2017 3:03 PM]

Attached file : Capture1.JPG (228KB - 360 downloads)
Attached file : Capture2.JPG (121KB - 338 downloads)

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Barry Cohen

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Subject : RE: Autotrade - Voteline Discrepancy
Posted : 8/17/2017 3:11 PM
Post #42358 - In reply to #42357

The "ACT RT" strategy does not use a trade plan. So this sounds like the correct behavior - your strategy will exit on the voteline according to the Orders block while Auto Trade places a trade plan & that exits according to the trade plan that you have AT set to use.
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John J

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Subject : RE: Autotrade - Voteline Discrepancy
Posted : 8/18/2017 12:18 PM
Post #42362 - In reply to #42325

Hi Barry,

Thanks for reminding me about the use of a Tradeplan instead of an Order Block. I then went ahead and replaced the Order Block with the Default OT Tradeplan (see attached Strat). Screenshot #1 shows that the fourth listed trade (BSX) exited at 10:15 this morning in the Portfolio window, but didn't exit until 20 minutes later on the Voteline.

I also noticed something peculiar on some of the other trades. For instance the HAL trade (screenshot #2), which was executed by AT, didn't appear on the Voteline at all? I should mention that I had forgotten to change the AT Tradeplan settings from 'Default' to 'Strategy'. However, it shouldn't matter at all as the Default Tradplan is being used here.





[Edited by John J on 8/18/2017 2:42 PM]

Attached file : CaptureA.PNG (83KB - 318 downloads)
Attached file : CaptureB.PNG (85KB - 341 downloads)
Attached file : ACT RT TP.ots (780KB - 32 downloads)

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Barry Cohen

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Subject : RE: Autotrade - Voteline Discrepancy
Posted : 8/18/2017 5:08 PM
Post #42363 - In reply to #42362

I see now that it's a timing problem. If you look closely at the BSX trade, you can see what's happening.

Trade Plan enters at 9:30:51AM when price is $26.81.
Voteline enters at 9:30:00AM when price is $26.83.

Since the trade plan is set to adjust stops based on the initial entry price, the stops on the right edge are slightly different than the voteline stops. So the Trade Plan FL gets set at $26.90 while the voteline FL exits at $26.92. The $26.90 value is touched at 10:14:59AM, so the Trade Plan exits the trade. $26.92 isn't touched until 10:35AM.

Prices can change in a split second, so the other part of this is that analysis has to run first, then AutoTrade runs afterwards. This is why the Trade Plan gets in .51 seconds later.

So that's why it happened, but how can you prevent it? You can change the Trade Plan stops to adjust on Current Bar Open Price. That should prevent it since the Open Price of the bar is static. We're also looking into adding an AutoTrade option to exit when a voteline exit is detected. I don't know when we'll get that added, but I hope soon (1-2 weeks).

As for HAL, that's a different reason which is due to the nature of Pending/Forming signals. In HAL's case, at exactly 9:35:24AM there was a Pending/Forming signal (triangle w/a hole in it). At some point within that 9:35AM bar, up to 9:39:59AM, the conditions that created that signal were no longer valid & caused the signal to disappear.

Pending/Forming signals indicate that OT has found a new long/short opportunity that will begin at the open of the next bar if the signal conditions are still present when the bar has fully formed.

How can you prevent that? This is a difficult one & has been an ongoing dilemma since OmniTrader was developed. You can set AutoTrade to trade the Forming signals or the New signals (solid triangle). New signals are fully formed signals, so they would not disappear. The caveat is that you'll be getting into trades one bar later. You need to ask yourself...Do I want to get into trades on the forming bar starting the trades asap, but risk that every now & then one may disappear? Or do I want to get into trades on the fully formed bar. The entry will start later but the signals won't change.

Additionally, if you decide to trade fully formed (New) signals, you'll not want to have your stops adjust based on the Current Bar, so you'll want to instead use Prior Bar.

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John J

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Subject : RE: Autotrade - Voteline Discrepancy
Posted : 10/13/2017 10:50 AM
Post #42532 - In reply to #42325

Hi Barry,

The answer you gave back in August (above) makes sense. However, OT is clearly not handling this properly. In the screenshot below a trade was placed by AT based on a Forming signal in GDX. The trade appears on neither the Voteline nor the Focus List. Because of this, AT is placing the trade using the Default TP as opposed to the TP used in the SS Heikin Ashi strat (it doesn't use a Fixed Profit target).

Every 5 minutes I get the following email message:
AutoTrade failed; Account: RT Stocks, Symbol: GDX, Tradeplan: (Strategy), Error: An open position exists for symbol 'GDX'. Close the position first!.

The same goes for all other open trades placed by AT that don't appear on the Voteline/FL. I get a gazillion emails due to this problem...





[Edited by John J on 10/13/2017 12:34 PM]

Attached file : Capture.JPG (438KB - 247 downloads)
Attached file : OT.log (57KB - 38 downloads)

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Barry Cohen

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Subject : RE: Autotrade - Voteline Discrepancy
Posted : 10/13/2017 12:32 PM
Post #42533 - In reply to #42532

The answer you gave back in August (above) makes sense. However, I don't think OT is handling this properly. In the screenshot below a trade was placed by AT based on a Forming signal in GDX. The trade appears on neither the Voteline nor the Focus List. Because of this, the trade is placed using the Default TP as opposed to the TP used in the SS Heikin Ashi strat (it doesn't use a Fixed Profit target).


At the bottom of the ToDo List/Test Settings form, there are options to run analysis more often. Every time analysis runs Auto Trade will attempt to submit new trades. Do you have any of those settings enabled?

I see you have one strategy being used with the (Strategy) setting. Unless you are using multiple strategies with multiple trade plans there really is no reason to use this setting. For now, I would recommend changing the (Strategy) setting in your Auto Trade to the individual trade plan that you want - the one inside the SS Heikin Ashi 2 strategy. Not that it shouldn't work, but it looks like a possible timing issue between when analysis runs in realtime, when the trade plan is chosen, & when AT submits.


Every 5 minutes I get the following email message:
AutoTrade failed; Account: RT Stocks, Symbol: GDX, Tradeplan: (Strategy), Error: An open position exists for symbol 'GDX'. Close the position first!.

The same goes for all other open trades placed by AT that don't appear on the Voteline/FL. I get a gazillion emails due to this problem...


We have had requests for this previously. Yes it's something we need to improve, say making it just email that information once per day.

Since you have forming signals enabled, if it attempts to trade a forming signal & it cannot, it should log this. That is intended. Like if analysis runs several times in one bar & each time analysis runs that forming signal is returned. What it should not be doing is attempting to trade other signals, in-trade signals for example - let me know if it is doing that.

There's another factor at place here though & that is MarketScans - are you still using it despite the errors in the other thread? I would not recommend using MarketScans with Auto Trade at this time. Especially with the errors we know about from the other thread. MarketScans could be causing some of the issues you posted about especially with the timing of things since not only are but forming signals appearing & disappearing, but symbols are appearing & disappearing as well.

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Subject : RE: Autotrade - Voteline Discrepancy
Posted : 10/13/2017 12:39 PM
Post #42534 - In reply to #42533

Additionally the log file is showing errors regarding a TradeScope that you have applied to your charts. So that is another factor at play here. I would recommend disabling that as it's just one more thing it's trying to do, & it seems to be having trouble.
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John J

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Subject : RE: Autotrade - Voteline Discrepancy
Posted : 10/13/2017 1:11 PM
Post #42535 - In reply to #42533

Originally written by 291234 on 10/13/2017 11:32 AM

At the bottom of the ToDo List/Test Settings form, there are options to run analysis more often. Every time analysis runs Auto Trade will attempt to submit new trades. Do you have any of those settings enabled?

Turns out that 'Run Analyses on Forming Bars' was left unchecked. I'll continue testing with the option checked.

I see you have one strategy being used with the (Strategy) setting. Unless you are using multiple strategies with multiple trade plans there really is no reason to use this setting. For now, I would recommend changing the (Strategy) setting in your Auto Trade to the individual trade plan that you want - the one inside the SS Heikin Ashi 2 strategy. Not that it shouldn't work, but it looks like a possible timing issue between when analysis runs in realtime, when the trade plan is chosen, & when AT submits.

Ok, I'll try that.

We have had requests for this previously. Yes it's something we need to improve, say making it just email that information once per day.

Since you have forming signals enabled, if it attempts to trade a forming signal & it cannot, it should log this. That is intended. Like if analysis runs several times in one bar & each time analysis runs that forming signal is returned. What it should not be doing is attempting to trade other signals, in-trade signals for example - let me know if it is doing that.


Not sure if I follow you here? In the example above, AT has indeed placed a trade on a forming bar, but OT is behaving like the trade never took place (hence the emails etc.)

There's another factor at place here though & that is MarketScans - are you still using it despite the errors in the other thread? I would not recommend using MarketScans with Auto Trade at this time. Especially with the errors we know about from the other thread. MarketScans could be causing some of the issues you posted about especially with the timing of things since not only are but forming signals appearing & disappearing, but symbols are appearing & disappearing as well.

MarketScans not being used here, just a regular OmniScan list...



[Edited by John J on 10/13/2017 1:14 PM]

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Subject : RE: Autotrade - Voteline Discrepancy
Posted : 10/13/2017 1:30 PM
Post #42536 - In reply to #42535

So the analysis runs after the new 5 minute bar forms & the forming signal is the result. Auto Trade submits an order for it. At this point there is a signal on the voteline & an actual trade executed. Then the 5 minute bar completes & analysis runs again, now on the completed bar. Analysis then determines that the conditions that are needed for that signal are no longer valid, so the signal disappears. You are left with an open position & no corresponding signal. That is just how forming signals work. The easiest way to avoid that behavior is to trade New signals instead of Forming.

There's another possibility though & that could be the entire voteline is not being shown due to some other bug. Restarting OT should fix it if that's the case. And it could be due to the errors you're getting from TradeScope.

The Position column not displaying that there is an open position would be a bug. I will look into that.

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Subject : RE: Autotrade - Voteline Discrepancy
Posted : 10/13/2017 2:37 PM
Post #42537 - In reply to #42325

Hi Barry,

I fully understand how trading on forming bars work, so that's not really the issue here.

The 'Close Position on Exit Signal' option was added to AT because I noticed that there was a disconnect between exits carried out by AT, and exits appearing on the Voteline for the same trade.

I suspect that there might be a somewhat similar disconnect occurring when AT has entered a trade on a forming bar and for whatever reason it doesn't get logged elsewhere in OT (i.e. not appearing in the Pos column in the FL etc.).


[Edited by John J on 10/13/2017 3:15 PM]

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Subject : RE: Autotrade - Voteline Discrepancy
Posted : 10/13/2017 4:00 PM
Post #42538 - In reply to #42537

Please disable your TradeScope & restart OT. Then see if the voteline & Position column display correctly.
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Subject : RE: Autotrade - Voteline Discrepancy
Posted : 10/13/2017 4:40 PM
Post #42539 - In reply to #42538

Hi Barry,

I disabled the TradeScope when you first mentioned it.

In the attached screenshot, a trade was placed by AT on EWZ based on a forming signal. As you can see there is no entry in the Position column for this symbol. The only improvement noticed is that the correct TP is now being used after I changed the setting in AT.



[Edited by John J on 10/13/2017 4:41 PM]

Attached file : Capture.JPG (456KB - 210 downloads)

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Subject : RE: Autotrade - Voteline Discrepancy
Posted : 10/13/2017 5:04 PM
Post #42540 - In reply to #42539

If you look at your voteline, it's showing blank. That's part of the problem, but I'm not sure what's causing that. Here are a few things to check:

- Edit /Data Periods. Heikin-Ashi 5min should be enabled to vote.
- Open the strategy. Make sure the Timeframes setting on the bottom right is set to All.
- Right-click symbols in the Focus List & select Enabled Strategies. They should be set to All.

If everything appears correct & normal, please attach or email your profile & I'll take a look.

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Subject : RE: Autotrade - Voteline Discrepancy
Posted : 10/13/2017 6:57 PM
Post #42542 - In reply to #42325

Hi Barry,

All appears correct & normal.

Mind you 5 open trades are listed in the Pos column, and all of them appear on the Voteline as well (I presume all forming signals converted into new signals for the symbols in question).

I'll run more test Monday morning using a different profile and strategy.





[Edited by John J on 10/14/2017 9:17 AM]

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Subject : RE: Autotrade - Voteline Discrepancy
Posted : 10/16/2017 12:39 PM
Post #42550 - In reply to #42325

Hi Barry,

You mentioned above that "There's another possibility though & that could be the entire voteline is not being shown due to some other bug."

Well, I found that it does seem to be the case for all ETF symbols in this list (only exception is for ETF symbol GDXJ). In the screenshot I have highlighted the ETFs that have absolutely nothing showing on the Voteline.



[Edited by John J on 10/16/2017 12:47 PM]

Attached file : Capture.JPG (472KB - 154 downloads)

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Subject : RE: Autotrade - Voteline Discrepancy
Posted : 10/16/2017 2:07 PM
Post #42551 - In reply to #42550

That is very peculiar indeed. I tried to reproduce it, but cannot. Would you mind trying a new profile please to see if it occurs there? Enable the Heikin-Ashi 5min timeframe with the same scan & the same SS Heikin Ashi 2 strategy.

If the new profile works, please compress/zip & attach the profile that has the issue.

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Subject : RE: Autotrade - Voteline Discrepancy
Posted : 10/17/2017 9:16 AM
Post #42553 - In reply to #42325

Hi Barry,

Just to let you know that I wasn't able to reproduce the problem on my 2nd. computer, so I didn't see any point of sending a copy of it to you. I have no idea what corrupted the original profile, so I just created a new one...
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