OmniTrader Forum OmniTrader Forum
forums calendars search
today this week
 
register logon control panel Forum Rules
You are currently browsing as a guest.
You should logon to access more features
A Self-Moderated Community - ALL MEMBERS, PLEASE READ!
Vote for Members who contribute the most to your trading, and help us moderate content within the Forums.


  Current location        Thread information  
OmniTrader 2016 Forums
OmniTrader 2018 General Discussion
Everyting you (I) wanted to know about live stops
Last Activity 10/25/2018 4:20 AM
19 replies, 795 viewings

Jump to page : 1
Now viewing page 1 [25 messages per page]
 
back reply
Printer friendly version

^ Top
LSJ

Legend
1001001002525
Posts: 353
Online

Joined: 8/17/2006
Location: Citrus Springs, FL

User Profile
 
Subject : Everyting you (I) wanted to know about live stops
Posted : 4/13/2018 1:26 PM
Post #44491

I never have pursued this to the depth of undertanding I need so:
1. Is there a document or documents that discusses in depth how trade plan stops are connected through the brokerage connection?
2. I see stops taking place but prior to that there is no stop order in the broker (IB). How can I determine what stops are active.
3. When trading with two profiles what must be done to maintain stop protection?




^ Top
Steve Luerman

Veteran
10010025
Posts: 232

Joined: 8/19/2005
Location: Boulder, CO

User Profile
 
Subject : RE: Everyting you (I) wanted to know about live st
Posted : 4/13/2018 2:44 PM
Post #44493 - In reply to #44491

Good questions.

re: #3
I believe that the trade plan manages the position INDEPENDENT of the profile that placed the trade. Let's see what Barry (or others) have to say.
^ Top
Hafnium

Regular
2525
Posts: 55

Joined: 1/1/2004
Location: Fairfax, VA

User Profile
 
Subject : RE: Everyting you (I) wanted to know about live st
Posted : 4/13/2018 5:56 PM
Post #44495 - In reply to #44491

1.For info on Live Stops, Suggest that you review:


a. Omnitrader Professional User Guide - Chapter 5 (some Trade Plan Basics)

b. Review the Trade Plan course video offered during Omnitrader University (OTU)

2. To See What Stops are Active - In Chart Options - activate "Plot Stops on Chart".
Remember - Trade Plans have both Broker stops and Virtual Stops. This should show you the various stops and which ones are active (they are highlighted). Broker stops are submitted directly to the broker. These are the ones that you can see sitting at the broker as open orders. Virtual stops have the stop logic in the trade plan and are only submitted to the broker when a condition is met.

3. Will leave this to Barry for a complete explanation. Just remember that each position in OT is being managed by a Trade Plan (its actually attached to the chart). OT will continue to manage a position even though its not in the current Profile, but OT does need to be running. You can confirm this by selecting "current positions" in the Focus list drop down menu. As for the specific details - I leave to Barry.
^ Top
LSJ

Legend
1001001002525
Posts: 353
Online

Joined: 8/17/2006
Location: Citrus Springs, FL

User Profile
 
Subject : RE: Everyting you (I) wanted to know about live st
Posted : 4/14/2018 12:19 PM
Post #44497 - In reply to #44491

Thanks. Looks like it is time to dust off the once used resources and do a little review.
^ Top
tradermike

Veteran
100
Posts: 111

Joined: 12/21/2004
Location: Folsom

User Profile
 
Subject : RE: Everyting you (I) wanted to know about live st
Posted : 4/16/2018 11:34 PM
Post #44501 - In reply to #44491

Correct, the Trade Plan manages exits independently of anything else.

There are two types of stops...

Broker Stops - these are LIVE at your broker. Typically we use these as protective stops, for when OT is not connected to the Broker.

Virtual Stops - these are calculated and updated whenever new data comes in.

If you want to have your (virtual) stops updated throughout the trading session, then you need to have data coming into OT/VT. If you are using a RT profile, then your stop values will be updated continuously. If you are in an EOD profile, then again your stops will only be evaluated when new data comes in. So if you manually force an update or have things setup to process at the end of day, that's when stops will be re-evaluated.

--tradermike
^ Top
Barry Cohen

Sage
5000100100100100252525
Posts: 5497

Joined: 1/19/2004

User Profile
 
Subject : RE: Everyting you (I) wanted to know about live st
Posted : 4/17/2018 11:03 AM
Post #44505 - In reply to #44491

3. When trading with two profiles what must be done to maintain stop protection?


If it's EOD profiles, you just need to run the ToDo List on one profile, then run the ToDo List on the second profile.

There's not a great solution for RT profiles though. You need the symbol that's in trade to exist in the profile as well as the same timeframe. Or like EOD profiles, you can switch between them.

The stops from trade plans won't get tested unless that symbol & the timeframe it was traded in are able to collect data.

^ Top
Jim Dean

Idol
2000500100100100252525
Posts: 2891

Joined: 9/21/2006
Location: L'ville, GA

User Profile
 
Subject : RE: Everyting you (I) wanted to know about live st
Posted : 4/17/2018 12:04 PM
Post #44506 - In reply to #44505

For different simultaneous FL's &/or timeframes in RT, you need two separate machines with OT running and two separate RT data subscriptions. I don't know if there is a tricksy way to allow both machines to be simultaneously logged in to the same account ... but it would likely be a bad idea unless the two FL's had *no* overlap in symbols. I'd suggest two brokerage accounts would be wisest.
^ Top
jpb

Veteran
100
Posts: 104

Joined: 5/11/2005
Location: Brown Deer, WI

User Profile
 
Subject : RE: Everyting you (I) wanted to know about live st
Posted : 4/17/2018 1:20 PM
Post #44507 - In reply to #44506

I trade with multiple instances of OT running against the same GXT/IB account. Each instance of OT runs in a separate virtual machine. In this way I have different strategies running with different trade plans.

The positions opened by each of the OT instances are tracked by each instance. I haven't had a situation where both OT instances have traded the same symbol at the same time -- although that is possible with my setup. So, I can't say what would happen if there is a collision.

I do this now with EOD profiles - used to do it with RT profiles for a short time -- no problem with multiple OT instances logged in at the same time to the same account on GXT. Nirvana removed that restriction of only one login at a time when they added OmniVest and the Trade Processor because you had servers in the cloud managing your account in addition to other instances of OT.

Having 2 instances of OT running removes the need that Barry pointed out to run the ToDo List with Profile A and then do the same with Profile B. You just run them separate. That does mean having multiple machines (or virtual machines) and double maintenance.

I'm not sure this addresses the original question on live stop loss, but is a way to have multiple profiles running and monitoring the active trades.
^ Top
Barry Cohen

Sage
5000100100100100252525
Posts: 5497

Joined: 1/19/2004

User Profile
 
Subject : RE: Everyting you (I) wanted to know about live st
Posted : 4/17/2018 1:36 PM
Post #44508 - In reply to #44507

The positions opened by each of the OT instances are tracked by each instance. I haven't had a situation where both OT instances have traded the same symbol at the same time -- although that is possible with my setup. So, I can't say what would happen if there is a collision.


That situation isn't possible. This is because when OT detects that there's a trade in a broker account (regardless of the source), it won't attempt to make another trade for the same symbol.
^ Top
LSJ

Legend
1001001002525
Posts: 353
Online

Joined: 8/17/2006
Location: Citrus Springs, FL

User Profile
 
Subject : RE: Everyting you (I) wanted to know about live st
Posted : 4/19/2018 10:55 AM
Post #44529 - In reply to #44491

Thanks to all for suggestions.
I am making it fit by running the EOD profile that trades MOO through the market open with orders for any trades selected. I don't want to trigger intraday stops so will not update or will disconnect from brokerage during the day. Switching to a profile with longer term trades during the day allows a leisurely approach to managing entries and exits of those trades.
The thing I needed to avoid were the virtual stops (X-Suite sma5) that would prematurely fire intraday and exit for pennies if that profile was connected. I prefer to wait for fully developed bar and exit signal on EOD for next MOO.

^ Top
Jim Dean

Idol
2000500100100100252525
Posts: 2891

Joined: 9/21/2006
Location: L'ville, GA

User Profile
 
Subject : RE: Everyting you (I) wanted to know about live st
Posted : 4/19/2018 11:02 AM
Post #44530 - In reply to #44529

Btw ... another resource you might review is the Brokerage User Guide. It is way way waaay out of date (2008), and all the screenshots are wrong, and some of the text is wrong, but it helps you understand how things work behind the scenes.
^ Top
LSJ

Legend
1001001002525
Posts: 353
Online

Joined: 8/17/2006
Location: Citrus Springs, FL

User Profile
 
Subject : RE: Everyting you (I) wanted to know about live st
Posted : 4/19/2018 11:30 AM
Post #44531 - In reply to #44530

Thanks Jim. It seems my questions usually involve some little wrinkle that isn't documented (or at least I can't find.)
E.g.: In the Xsuite TP the fixed loss stop has a check box for use as a broker stop. For the sma profit target that box is greyed out. I realize it doesn't exist yet so I then assume OT must be connected to react when the sma is hit. (I think the lights just went on.)
I am in a constant state of converting implicit to explicit knowledge <:)
^ Top
Jim Dean

Idol
2000500100100100252525
Posts: 2891

Joined: 9/21/2006
Location: L'ville, GA

User Profile
 
Subject : RE: Everyting you (I) wanted to know about live st
Posted : 4/19/2018 11:32 AM
Post #44532 - In reply to #44531

"I am in a constant state of converting implicit to explicit knowledge <:)"

Welcome to the club :~)
^ Top
LSJ

Legend
1001001002525
Posts: 353
Online

Joined: 8/17/2006
Location: Citrus Springs, FL

User Profile
 
Subject : RE: Everyting you (I) wanted to know about live st
Posted : 4/19/2018 11:40 AM
Post #44533 - In reply to #44532

That is a nice way of saying I keep forgetting what I knew. Like there is only room for so much new stuff and it pushes out the old.

I read a Discover Mag article on aging and the brain. Brutal. It is a slippery slope we are on.
^ Top
Trader_Neil

Member

Posts: 5

Joined: 2/27/2006

User Profile
 
Subject : RE: Everyting you (I) wanted to know about live st
Posted : 6/13/2018 3:42 PM
Post #44812 - In reply to #44491

Hello,
I am using the Interactive Brokers paper trading (i.e Demo) account. I use Autotrade to submit and manage the trades via the brokerage connection and all works fine. I have a couple of questions that I've been unable to find answers to that I'm hoping someone can assist with.

1. Once a day the IB (Trader Workstation) logs me out of the system meaning that once a day I have to log back in again otherwise Autotrade cannot place orders. I assume that this is a consequence of me using a paper trading account and that IB are making it awkward to encourage me to open a live account. For those of you with live accounts can you comment on whether you are able to remain logged in to TWS indefinitely or at least for a period longer than 24 hours?

2. As a test I would like to have OT pass no new trades via Autotrade and allow the trade plans to run down my open positions until they have all closed. I cannot deselect both New and Forming in Autotrade. Is there an elegant way of achieving the objective?

Thanks,

Neil
^ Top
Barry Cohen

Sage
5000100100100100252525
Posts: 5497

Joined: 1/19/2004

User Profile
 
Subject : RE: Everyting you (I) wanted to know about live st
Posted : 6/13/2018 5:11 PM
Post #44813 - In reply to #44812

1. If you use IB Gateway, it will remain logged in & not disconnect every day.

2. In the Port Sim method you can set the Max Longs & Max Shorts to 0. Or disable your strategies so that there are no signals. Or disable voting for the Daily timeframe (just need some other timeframe voting instead). Or add a Strategy Voting filter where no trades can pass. Or run the ToDo List manually forgoing AutoTrade. Probably some other ways too that I'm not thinking of.

^ Top
Trader_Neil

Member

Posts: 5

Joined: 2/27/2006

User Profile
 
Subject : RE: Everyting you (I) wanted to know about live st
Posted : 6/14/2018 8:08 AM
Post #44816 - In reply to #44491

Barry,
a comprehensive reply.

Thank you,

Neil

[Edited by Trader_Neil on 6/14/2018 8:09 AM]

^ Top
John J

Veteran
1001002525
Posts: 251

Joined: 8/3/2010
Location: Leduc, AB

User Profile
 
Subject : RE: Everyting you (I) wanted to know about live st
Posted : 6/17/2018 5:54 PM
Post #44833 - In reply to #44491

Hi Barry,

There seem to be a lot of fragmented information scattered on several threads on how to set up AT properly on IB. Can we get all of it gathered in one place, or in an user manual?
^ Top
Mel

Veteran
10010025
Posts: 237

Joined: 12/30/2003
Location: Kensington

User Profile
 
Subject : RE: Everyting you (I) wanted to know about live st
Posted : 6/18/2018 7:48 AM
Post #44834 - In reply to #44491

I think a FAQ is in order, with the info or links to things like complicated setups, such as brokerages, finding download, video seminar archives, code archives, Solutions to common registration problems and data download problems. Same us time and cut the load on the customer service folks.
^ Top
Barry Cohen

Sage
5000100100100100252525
Posts: 5497

Joined: 1/19/2004

User Profile
 
Subject : RE: Everyting you (I) wanted to know about live st
Posted : 6/18/2018 12:30 PM
Post #44836 - In reply to #44833

Making an FAQ on that is something I've been wanting to do when I get a chance. Thanks for the reminder.
Jump to page : 1
Now viewing page 1 [25 messages per page]
back reply

Legend    Action      Notification  
Administrator
Forum Moderator
Registered User
Unregistered User
E-Mail this thread to a friend
Toggle e-mail notification


Nirvana Systems
For any problems or issues please contact our Webmaster at webmaster@nirvsys.com.