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OmniTrader 2007 Technical Support
Holy Grail indicator?
Last Activity 12/7/2010 8:35 AM
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Kris

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Subject : RE: Holy Grail indicator?
Posted : 6/11/2007 1:51 PM
Post #12216 - In reply to #12065

In this example, my RetraceSys.txt, post # 12100 would be just fine, with the RetraceEMA set to 20 and LookBack set to 10.

I see your point that it can take many bars for the market to move above the high before the bottom.

Cheers, Kris
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Bill Graves

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Subject : RE: Holy Grail indicator?
Posted : 6/11/2007 6:36 PM
Post #12221 - In reply to #12214

Kris,

Yes, you have described the Grail Trade according to Linda's rules. The only comment I might make is that the trade is not usually a V type reversal, although it sure can be with a super high ADX reading.

Earlier, I posted the ES 2 min as an example. Actually I took this trade today in the 2 min ER, the contract I trade the most. The 2 min chart is the first one below. I didn't post it initially as an example because of the amount of time it spent below the 20 ema. I just wanted members to see price action right at the 20 EMA.

I have also attached the same ER trade in the 1 minute chart. I use the 1 min chart on days of very low volatility. Not necessary today. But you can see the number of bars it took for the trade to play out. Sometimes this will happen in a daily chart as well. If a loop is not necessary, that's great! You are the programmer, not me! -:)

Hope this helps. Cheers,


Attached file : Grail_20070611-2 min.png (39KB - 255 downloads)
Attached file : Grail_20070611-1 min.png (38KB - 199 downloads)

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Bill Graves

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Subject : RE: Holy Grail indicator?
Posted : 6/12/2007 10:26 AM
Post #12224 - In reply to #12221

Hi Guys,

Ok, here is a short Grail trade I just completed in the ES this morning. It was much cleaner than the ER this morning for the same time period.

Anyway, the ES showed the classic Grail pattern.

Cheers to all,
Attached file : Grail_20070612.png (36KB - 235 downloads)

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Bill Graves

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Subject : RE: Holy Grail indicator?
Posted : 6/13/2007 10:02 AM
Post #12231 - In reply to #12224

Good morning, All!

Here is another successful Grail trade in the ES for this mroning. The ER had a similar pattern at the same time but did not touch the 20 EMA.

I still took the ER trade anyway based on the ES pattern because it is often easier to exit the ER than the ES on a limit order.

Cheers,
Attached file : Grail_20070613.png (41KB - 197 downloads)

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Bill Graves

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Subject : RE: Holy Grail indicator?
Posted : 6/13/2007 3:00 PM
Post #12233 - In reply to #12231

Hi Guys!

Ok, here's another sucessful ES Grail trade for the afternoon. As you can see, there is not one that has failed (that I have seen and taken) since I started posting these.

I won't bore you all with any more postings. But, for your tradng, you can see that they are plentiful and are very high probability.

Good trading to all,
Attached file : Grail_20070613-2.png (37KB - 205 downloads)

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Deepak

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Subject : RE: Holy Grail indicator?
Posted : 6/13/2007 3:06 PM
Post #12234 - In reply to #12065

Bill,
Do you happen to have another example of a stock example?
Thanks,
Deepak
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EYEGUY

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Subject : RE: Holy Grail indicator?
Posted : 6/13/2007 7:12 PM
Post #12235 - In reply to #12234

Deepak:

I have been following this thread closely and perhaps can offer you two good Grail EOD candidates that fired off today.

Take a look at the screen shots attached. Please remember, no guarantees are attached, but I think these exemplifiy the Grail set-up.

Tom Helget
Attached file : Capture6-13-2007-8.06.11 PM.jpg (235KB - 260 downloads)
Attached file : Capture6-13-2007-8.06.26 PM.jpg (218KB - 250 downloads)

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Bill Graves

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Subject : RE: Holy Grail indicator?
Posted : 6/13/2007 11:25 PM
Post #12238 - In reply to #12235

Nice, Tom!

The secret, of course, is to have a resting buy stop waiting to enter when Price takes out the high of the bar before the trigger bar, exactly as you have shown on the charts.

Regards,
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EYEGUY

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Subject : RE: Holy Grail indicator?
Posted : 6/14/2007 9:57 AM
Post #12241 - In reply to #12065

Bill:

Yes, you are correct, that is the secret. But, it is a bit harder on the EOD trader. Perhaps the best we can do is identify a trend and then jump aboard. As I write this MA is up $0.70 and ROK $0.85 at 10:43 AM.

I have identified another possible candidate today and have attached a screen shot.

I should also identify my method for anyone interested in duplicating it.

First, I am using OT2007 Pro and OmniScan.

To obtain setups for OmniScan, I modified one of Kris' files given in this thread to act as an indicator. It should be loaded to the Indicators file. To use it go to OmniScan and generate a new list. I call mine Holy Grail. Your technical rule will be GrailInd(20,8) = 1.

Once your selections are obtained, you need a strategy. Kris has been modifying this as he is (apparently) still in devolpment. I substituted his newest GrailSys system in his original .ots strategy and called it simply "Grail" (also attached).

For completeness I have also attached a profile, the strategy and a chart template for anyone interested. Please note that some of Kris' original coding may be overwritten, so you might want to change some names here.

I know this is perhaps not what Kris originally intended, but it is my best effort to conjoin his coding into an effective system. I apologize if I have misinterpreted any of his ideas.

Tom Helget


Attached file : Capture6-14-2007-10.37.59 AM.jpg (231KB - 299 downloads)
Attached file : GrailInd.txt (2KB - 287 downloads)
Attached file : GrailSys.txt (2KB - 247 downloads)
Attached file : Grail.ots (568KB - 287 downloads)
Attached file : Holy_Grail.otd (116KB - 248 downloads)
Attached file : holy grail.otp (2060KB - 245 downloads)

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Bill Graves

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Subject : RE: Holy Grail indicator?
Posted : 6/14/2007 10:06 AM
Post #12243 - In reply to #12238

Good morning!

Here's a nice one. Missed it though. I was looking at email... during trading hours. Not a good idea! You snooze, you lose.

Our intra-day winning streak remains unbroken.

Next post below: I found an EOD setting up.

Regards,
Attached file : Grail_20070614.png (41KB - 223 downloads)

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Bill Graves

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Subject : RE: Holy Grail indicator?
Posted : 6/14/2007 10:11 AM
Post #12244 - In reply to #12243

Ok,

Here's an EOD setting up. Unless a new low takes out the low of the red candle on 6/12/07, our entry is a buy stop at 61.61.

As Tom says, no guarantees!!! -:)

Regards,
Attached file : Grail_EOD_20070614.png (37KB - 236 downloads)

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Bill Graves

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Subject : RE: Holy Grail indicator?
Posted : 6/14/2007 12:42 PM
Post #12245 - In reply to #12241

Tom,

Thank you for this excellent post and the good find on EQ.

Tom, the new trigger bar is on 6/7. So, wouldn't we have been stopped in today? Remember, the trigger bar adjusts with each new lower low on the retrace to the 20 EMA. We just don't want Price too far below the 20 EMA.

I will try to find out how far a penetration past the 20 EMA disqualifies a grail trade. I also suspect that a lengthy consolidation around the 20 EMA would also disqualify a trade as grail trade.

If this EQ trade goes well, the 1.28 FIB extension taken from the March low is at $79.50 !

Thanks, Tom, for sharing all this.

Regards,

Attached file : Grail_EQ_EOD.png (36KB - 198 downloads)

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EYEGUY

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Subject : RE: Holy Grail indicator?
Posted : 6/14/2007 1:06 PM
Post #12246 - In reply to #12245

Bill:

You are indeed correct!

The reason I marked the chart as I did is that I thought the entry point (Buy Stop) was the high of the bar immediately preceding the penetration (or touch) of the 20-day EMA. That, of course, would be on June 4th as marked.

However, I am happy to learn that my assumption was in error. That must be why Kris' system fired (although I failed to understand why at the time). It sure looked like a good trade with the mighty gap up!

I would appreciate it if you could investigate how long activity below the 20-day EMA could continue before a buy would not be qualified for a Grail trade.

Also could you clarify what you mean by a 1.28 FIB extension, please.

Thanks,

Tom Helget

P.S. Attached please find three more EOD Grail trades using my new understanding of where the Buy Stop should be placed. No guarantees!

[Edited by EYEGUY on 6/14/2007 1:20 PM]

Attached file : Capture6-14-2007-2.12.44 PM.jpg (238KB - 210 downloads)
Attached file : Capture6-14-2007-2.12.12 PM.jpg (235KB - 185 downloads)
Attached file : Capture6-14-2007-2.11.41 PM.jpg (246KB - 198 downloads)

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Bill Graves

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Subject : RE: Holy Grail indicator?
Posted : 6/14/2007 2:57 PM
Post #12247 - In reply to #12246

Hi Tom,

You are exactly right. You wrote:

The entry point (Buy Stop) was the high of the bar immediately preceding the penetration (or touch) of the 20-day EMA. That, of course, would be on June 4th as marked.


As you can see, however, the trigger bar can change if price goes lower. -:)

I will indeed try to get answer about distance of penetrations through the 20 EMA.

The 1.28 FIB Extension (or more properly the 1.272) is computed by identifying 3 points:

1. The 3/5/07 Low @ 51.00
2. The 5/21/07 High @ 65.50
3. The 6/8/07 Los @ 61.23

This will produce a 1.272 FIB target at approx 79.50
The next most common target would be the 1.618 at approx 84.50

You could generate closer targets by using the 4/2 Low instead of the 3/5 low and come up with a 1.272 @ 71.81 and 1.618 @ 74.67.

I use the eSignal FIB extension tool to do this. I don't know how to do this with OT's FIB tool. I am guessing it cannot because Kris wrote an indicator to do this:

http://www.omnitrader.com/omnitrader/proforum/thread-view.asp?threadid=1045&posts=7

See Kris' post #5227 with his custom indicator.



Cheers,

[Edited by Bill Graves on 6/14/2007 3:08 PM]

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EYEGUY

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Subject : RE: Holy Grail indicator?
Posted : 6/14/2007 3:10 PM
Post #12248 - In reply to #12247

Bill:

Thank you.

As to the Fib extensions, as you might expect, Kris once again has scored (thank God for his enthusiasm and superb programming skills). You can find his most recent code on the OT Pro web-site:


http://www.omnitrader.com/omnitrader/proforum/thread-view.asp?threadid=1045&posts=7

While this is not exactly the eSignal tool you employ it is somewhat similar.

Tom Helget
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EYEGUY

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Subject : RE: Holy Grail indicator?
Posted : 6/15/2007 9:33 AM
Post #12253 - In reply to #12248

EOD Grailers:

Here is today's pick, TXU projected by Fib Extensions to $71.28.

Tom Helget

[Edited by EYEGUY on 6/15/2007 9:37 AM]

Attached file : Capture6-15-2007-10.31.03 AM.jpg (248KB - 258 downloads)

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Bill Graves

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Subject : RE: Holy Grail indicator?
Posted : 6/25/2007 10:37 AM
Post #12311 - In reply to #12253

Back to back grail trades in the ER this morning.

Cheers
Attached file : Grail_20070625.png (32KB - 221 downloads)

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Thad Dorgan

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Subject : RE: Holy Grail indicator?
Posted : 6/25/2007 6:55 PM
Post #12316 - In reply to #12065

****Attention OmniTrader users**** You must own a copy of OmniTrader Professional to insert custom code into OmniTrader....

If you are interested in upgrading your existing copy of OT to include the functionality to add the "Holy Grail" indicator or others, please contact our sales team at sales@nirvsys.com or 1-800-880-0338.

Thanks!!!
Thad Dorgan
Nirvana Support
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cowboy013

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Subject : RE: Holy Grail indicator?
Posted : 6/29/2007 2:55 AM
Post #12342 - In reply to #12065

FYI - was wondering if anyone has the 'GRAIL.OTS " system code/formula for a regular OT 2007 Real Time edition. I was interested in it and not able to write. I'm learning to trade the MINI and have read Linda's books.
any help would be appreciated.


COWBOY013
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Bill Graves

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Subject : RE: Holy Grail indicator?
Posted : 6/29/2007 4:40 PM
Post #12356 - In reply to #12342

Hi Jim!

At this point Kris' code comes the closest in my opinion. Someone may have coded it privately and might be willing to share?

However, user created code requires OT Pro ~ well worth the investment, Jim.

I was supposed to be checking EXACTLY how far price can penetrate the 20 EMA before the trade can no longer be considered a grail trade.

Looks like I dropped the ball. Thanks for the reminder!! -:) I will try to get that done this weekend, and perhaps the code can be finalized.

Cheeers,

P.S. This is a great system for day trading the emini stock indexes!!

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Bill Graves

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Subject : RE: Holy Grail indicator?
Posted : 7/5/2007 2:46 PM
Post #12418 - In reply to #12356

Hi Guys,

Sorry wasn't able to check last weekeend, as promised, on how far price can penetrate the 20 EMA before a trade is no longer considered a grail trade. But I got it done yesterday. Here is the official word:

For testing purposes, use a 2 ATR stop, so price can retrace back a bit further than the EMA. If there are sell divergences on a higher time frame and you are looking for a grail buy on the lower time frame, then price will almost always go further through the EMA.

If the market is very strong with new momentum highs on the higher time frame, price can even fall short of the EMA on the lower time frame. The grail is just a good structure or model to trade around - nothing magic about the EMA though.


This information may make the system a little harder to program. But there you have it.

Cheers,
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The Stockman

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Subject : RE: Holy Grail indicator?
Posted : 7/24/2007 6:24 AM
Post #12550 - In reply to #12065

Hello Bill,

The trading platform I have here does not give me the ADX to implement the Holy Grail set up.

It has the following; Bollinger, MACD (Histogram), RSI, Directional Movement, Stocastics, Williams %R, Momentum, Volatility, Price Oscillator and Standard Deviation.

Will any of the above indicators which works with this set up in lieu of the ADX.

Thanks . . ..

The Stockman. . . .
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Deepak

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Subject : RE: Holy Grail indicator?
Posted : 7/24/2007 9:56 AM
Post #12551 - In reply to #12065

Bill,
Can you show me a recent ES and/or stock Holy grail setups picture(s)? It would greatly help me to see the setup again.
Thanks,
Deepak
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Troy

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Subject : RE: Holy Grail indicator?
Posted : 11/3/2007 10:17 AM
Post #13152 - In reply to #12100


How do you import the OTS into OT?
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Barry Cohen

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Subject : RE: Holy Grail indicator?
Posted : 11/3/2007 11:13 AM
Post #13154 - In reply to #13152

Save .ots files in your C:\Program Files\Nirvana\OT2007\Strategies folder. You do not need to open the file. Once there it will be available in your OT strategy list.
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