OmniTrader Forum OmniTrader Forum
forums calendars search
today this week
 
register logon control panel Forum Rules
You are currently browsing as a guest.
You should logon to access more features
A Self-Moderated Community - ALL MEMBERS, PLEASE READ!
Vote for Members who contribute the most to your trading, and help us moderate content within the Forums.


  Current location        Thread information  
OmniTrader Archives
OmniTrader 2007 Technical Support
Standard v Pro v NSP-31 v Homegrown strategies
Last Activity 12/7/2010 8:35 AM
10 replies, 1390 viewings

Jump to page : 1
Now viewing page 1 [25 messages per page]
 
back reply
Printer friendly version

^ Top
kmcintyre

Legend
100100100
Posts: 300

Joined: 8/30/2007
Location: Valley Center, CA

User Profile
 
Subject : Standard v Pro v NSP-31 v Homegrown strategies
Posted : 9/6/2007 2:19 AM
Post #12829

Hello,

My interest is in finding a mechanical trading system that I can trust. I would like to have 5 - 10 positions on at any one time, and prefer holding positions for several weeks to months. I'd like to review my positions once per day, adjusting stops and profit targets as my mechanical trading system dictates. I am comfortable with trading stocks, options, or single stock futures. I want make 30+% ARR.

First, am I crazy?

The standard strategies are for "prospecting only". My forward testing seems to confirm that I wouldn't want to mechanically trade the standard strategies.

It looks like the PRO version has beefier strategies. Might they get me there?

NSP-31 sounds promising, but the posted results appear to be based on putting all your eggs in one or two positions. I'm not sure how it would do with a more conservative portfolio management scenario.

The PRO version appears to provide all the flexibility in the world to create custom strategies. But my experience in programming custom strategies has taught me that while I know how to program, I don't know how to design trading systems that work exceptionally well.

Are there really benevolent souls in the NClub that share profitable strategies?

Anyone "been there - done that" and care to share the secrets to success?

Thanks

Keith

^ Top
Maciej

Veteran
100100252525
Posts: 297

Joined: 12/19/2003
Location: Paris

User Profile
 
Subject : RE: Standard v Pro v NSP-31 v Homegrown strategies
Posted : 9/6/2007 8:05 AM
Post #12831 - In reply to #12829

For what's worth it seems that you should be investigating the Nirvana Club or the NSP-31. I don't do either but the pro version won't solve your aims without a fair bit of work. If you don't want to pursue the Nirvana route you could read one or two of the classic books on trading and see if they suit your style.
You probably need work out you money management approach to see whther you'll be able to sustain the possible drawdowns on running so many positions simultaneously.
^ Top
Keith Shepard

Regular
252525
Posts: 89

Joined: 11/22/2005
Location: Michigan

User Profile
 
Subject : RE: Standard v Pro v NSP-31 v Homegrown strategies
Posted : 9/6/2007 9:57 AM
Post #12832 - In reply to #12829

Originally written by kmcintyre on 9/6/2007 3:19 AM

My interest is in finding a mechanical trading system that I can trust. I would like to have 5 - 10 positions on at any one time, and prefer holding positions for several weeks to months. I'd like to review my positions once per day, adjusting stops and profit targets as my mechanical trading system dictates. I am comfortable with trading stocks, options, or single stock futures. I want make 30+% ARR.


It sounds like you want to trend follow or position trade (trades last weeks/months) more than swing trade (trades last a few days or a week). Am I correct? If so, you might want to take a look at the Turtle system of trading.

If you do want to hold you positions for weeks and months, the cheapest way to find out if the Turtle system is something you want to use is to buy the recent book by Curtis Faith: Way of the Turtle. It's an excellent trading book even if you decided you don't want to be a Turtle trader. It's a quick read and it'll help you in all aspects of trading.

If Turtle trading does interest you, then consider buying Nirvana's Turtle plug-in: Nirvana Turtle Trader Plug-in. Nirvana's plug-in offers eleven strategies based on Turtle trading. I'm not sure if you need OmniTrader Pro for that plug-in. Some of the strategies are mechanical and to be traded without discretion. Turtle trades generally last 30-50 days (from my testing).

First, am I crazy?


Not at all. :-)

It looks like the PRO version has beefier strategies. Might they get me there?


The PRO strategies are better. I haven't traded them in a while, so I couldn't really give you much as a "review". Even if you can't program well, OmniTrader gives you basic tools to create your own strategies based on your goals and objectives. Relying on Nirvana's strategies isn't necessary. I found the Nirvana strategies to be a good base to learn from.

NSP-31 sounds promising, but the posted results appear to be based on putting all your eggs in one or two positions. I'm not sure how it would do with a more conservative portfolio management scenario.


NSP-31 is also more of a swing trading strategy (trades lasting on average 6-7 days). And yes ... from my trading experience with NSP-31 (since January 2007), it's a strategy that works best if you put the most fire power behind the fewest signals. I usually have no more than four open NSP-31 positions with my trading account fully in play (no margin though).

I don't put 50%-60% equity on a trade as Nirvana did (who really does), but they also ran tests with 40% and 20% of equity that showed profitability. In my experience with NSP-31, it doesn't pay to have a large, diverse portfolio.

NSP-31 is also a Long only strategy. No shorting with it. But really, if your goals are "5 - 10 positions on at any one time, and prefer holding positions for several weeks to months" as you stated above, then NSP-31 probably isn't the right strategy. The Turtle system sounds more in line with your trading goals/style.

Hope some of that helps.

:-)

Regards;
Keith
^ Top
kmcintyre

Legend
100100100
Posts: 300

Joined: 8/30/2007
Location: Valley Center, CA

User Profile
 
Subject : RE: Standard v Pro v NSP-31 v Homegrown strategies
Posted : 9/6/2007 10:01 AM
Post #12833 - In reply to #12829

Thanks for the inputs. Suggestions on books/trading methods that really work?

Hard work doesn't bother me. My biggest issue is not knowing what to work on. I've found that most (dare I say all) systems I've programmed and backtested have failed to beat buy-and-hold. Many have actually lost money due to whipsaws.

Thanks

Keith

^ Top
kmcintyre

Legend
100100100
Posts: 300

Joined: 8/30/2007
Location: Valley Center, CA

User Profile
 
Subject : RE: Standard v Pro v NSP-31 v Homegrown strategies
Posted : 9/6/2007 10:28 AM
Post #12834 - In reply to #12829

Keith,

Yes, your input helps! Thanks

I've read (more than once) "Way of the Turtles". Great book. Reenforced my belief that a purely mechanical system can work better than discretionary trading. (Curtis credits much of his success to following the rules without emotion.)

I'm not adverse to 7 day swing trades. I'd prefer not day-trading (unless it was via OmniPilot) cuz I don't want to be glued to the screen all day long, especially if I'm emotionally leveraged. Bottom line is "show me the money!". I lean to trend following because it is less sensitive to entry and exit timing. (Also less friction from slippage and commish)

If I joind NC, do you think I would find people willing to colaborate and share systems?

Keith

^ Top
Maciej

Veteran
100100252525
Posts: 297

Joined: 12/19/2003
Location: Paris

User Profile
 
Subject : RE: Standard v Pro v NSP-31 v Homegrown strategies
Posted : 9/7/2007 4:49 AM
Post #12842 - In reply to #12829

Try "Mastering the Trade" by John F Carter. I've recently got thanks to another thread here (the squeeze) and found the book not only entertaining but realistic with very useful ideas not only on entries but also on stops and exits with explanations why certain approaches may work or not. Easily worth the money unlike some other authors.
^ Top
kmcintyre

Legend
100100100
Posts: 300

Joined: 8/30/2007
Location: Valley Center, CA

User Profile
 
Subject : RE: Standard v Pro v NSP-31 v Homegrown strategies
Posted : 9/7/2007 9:17 AM
Post #12843 - In reply to #12829

I haven't read that one. Thanks!
^ Top
Buffalo Bill

Veteran
100100252525
Posts: 277

Joined: 10/3/2006
Location: Stafford, VA

User Profile
 
Subject : RE: Standard v Pro v NSP-31 v Homegrown strategies
Posted : 9/7/2007 2:02 PM
Post #12844 - In reply to #12843

Keith

"Trade your way to financial freedom" by Van Tharp. Really opened my eyes up to strategy testing, stops/risk, expectancy, expectunity and position sizing. Read it twice back-to-back.
^ Top
Buffalo Bill

Veteran
100100252525
Posts: 277

Joined: 10/3/2006
Location: Stafford, VA

User Profile
 
Subject : RE: Standard v Pro v NSP-31 v Homegrown strategies
Posted : 9/7/2007 2:35 PM
Post #12845 - In reply to #12829

Keith

I just joined the NC about 6 weeks ago. I have been busy learning, backtesting, playing with the new toys/strategies and will begin trading again very very soon. So far I am very impressed.

My trading goals are similar to yours except 1) I plan shorter term trades of a few days to few weeks max (EOD only) and plan on making much more than 30% ARR!! We'll see, but the tools I get with my club membership make that a much higher probability.

As afr as:

"The PRO version appears to provide all the flexibility in the world to create custom strategies. But my experience in programming custom strategies has taught me that while I know how to program, I don't know how to design trading systems that work exceptionally well."

Well, it's easy to cobble together some system ideas and then fully backtest without doing a ton of programming so yes, Pro will definately get you there. But you won't need too because...

"Are there really benevolent souls in the NClub that share profitable strategies?"

Wow, I'll say. On the club website there are over 100 member uploaded strategies ready for download and testing, besides the specialized systems you get with the Club-only AI stuff. I am finalizing some backtesting of 5 strategies I downloaded (and then added my own tweaks). Yesterday's forward testing (18 mos data) showed hit rates of 86% or better for each (using real stops, not just next pivot point) and expectancies of .7R or better (expect 70 cents for each dollar risked). My goal is the same as yours - totally mechanical trading. These numbers are great, but I know real world and changing markets will bring them lower - but still should be profitable.

When I am satisfied with my tweaks you bet I will upload it to the club website/forum for others to use and hopefully improve. I know my additions improved the original startegies (based on my testing), and I know others with much more experience and bigger brains can improve my crude updates. Then we may have some very solid strategies thru collaboration. The club is great for members helping members

Good luck



^ Top
kmcintyre

Legend
100100100
Posts: 300

Joined: 8/30/2007
Location: Valley Center, CA

User Profile
 
Subject : RE: Standard v Pro v NSP-31 v Homegrown strategies
Posted : 9/7/2007 5:17 PM
Post #12847 - In reply to #12829

Buffalo, Keith, all,

Thanks. I took the plunge today and signed up from the club.

I'm looking forward to checking out nsp-31 and other trading systems.

I've used many products. OmniTrader is the first to get "fully funded". I'm sold on the vision. Hope to be praising the ARR soon.

I'm sure I'll have tons more questions as I continue to learn. Thanks for the helpful dialog.

Keith

^ Top
kmcintyre

Legend
100100100
Posts: 300

Joined: 8/30/2007
Location: Valley Center, CA

User Profile
 
Subject : RE: Standard v Pro v NSP-31 v Homegrown strategies
Posted : 8/17/2010 11:12 PM
Post #21482 - In reply to #12829

Wow. A blast fro the past. How little has changed (for me anyway) in 3 years.

I never looked at the strategies other Club members have posted. Maybe there are some nuggets there...

Keith

Jump to page : 1
Now viewing page 1 [25 messages per page]
back reply

Legend    Action      Notification  
Administrator
Forum Moderator
Registered User
Unregistered User
E-Mail this thread to a friend
Toggle e-mail notification


Nirvana Systems
For any problems or issues please contact our Webmaster at webmaster@nirvsys.com.