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Futures and Forex
(FX) Futures Account - Info@GxTrader.com
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Sent an eMail to GxTrader Thursday and haven't heard back yet. Not a big deal but figure this might be the second best place to get some answers..
I'll narrow down and shorten up the email to the questions I want to ask..
Looking to Trade FX Futures which is a relatively newer market that only a handful of brokers are covering.. Due to the limitations OT/VT has trading Forex and just the limitations overall within the immensely large Forex Markets where things such as Volume not being available, I had done some research and found these FX Futures to be a viable alternative and an exceptional one at the least!
Does OT/VT have the same limitations or issues when back testing, paper trading, vote line, NTB Charts and Portf.Sim. trading/testing Futures as it does with Forex? (the issue in Forex is well known, that the ability for OT/VT to calculate PiPs is compromised on certain Currency Pairs!! --- And, I wonder if these limitations are experienced when OT/VT calculates 'POINTS' for Futures or eMini's??
Does GxTrader/Transcend Capital have access to these FX Futures markets? (I believe the primary or a majority of FX Futures symbols is traded on the CME Global exchange..)
What's the cost, if any difference of trading these FX Futures at GxTrader? Are they considered eMini's or what would the account size and limitations be? For instance, what would the trade size minimum (based on account size, margin, cash, etc) be on any FX Futures symbol?
What's the minimum deposit for this FX Futures account? Or Futures/eMini account size?
Are commissions the same? And, what's the inactivity charge? (Such as the $99 platform fee if one doesn't make 10,000 shares or 100 contracts in a month?)
Is it the same costs for those who already own OT Pro / VT Pro? (As I once heard with rather great enthusiasm that a GxTrader user gets access to ALL of Nirvana's plugins and strategies when you open an account at GxT?
Does GxTrader/Transcend Capital ever plan on incorporating Forex? (or, does this depend on OT/VT incorporating Forex with Data Feed??)
What's the liquidity of GxTrader?? Deal Desk? Execution? Basically are spreads astronomical in size and orders take time to fill? Or, the trader can be assured of getting orders filled in an acceptable amount of time with limited slippage, tight spreads, etc when the order is placed?!
I know some of these questions have already been asked and answered at great length but just trying to cover all bases if I want to go forward with changing my Futures account from MBT to GxT.
As always, many, many thanks!!
Location: L'ville, GA
They'll have it when they have it ... and they obviously want to have it all ... but resources and customer base limit how much and when.
They'll almost certainly have Forex before they have FX Futures.
I think your questions are good ones but there are only crystal ball answers available.
Thanks for responding to this Jim as early as you did. I had waited hoping I'd get some more feedback. Though, I did get a few emails on the topic.
I totally understand your reasoning too as to why "they'll have it, when they have it". Especially since its obvious they want to continue to grow and expand into other financial markets and areas of business and not just Trading Software development/applications. Depends on the customer base..
So, thanks for the feedback as it was the best possible answer to the availability of FX Futures at GxTrader..
But, in my efforts to support Nirvana in helping them expand - I am interested in opening this Futures account at GxTrader and just not getting the information I requested - Is GxTrader even still in operation? My initial questions were based on availability of FX futures at GxT, but I do think in retrospect, that the GxT website has very limited information.. And, some of these answers to my questions posted below may come in useful to other potential customers in the future ..
The GxTrader website only gives you Costs for Commissions and Fees, yet not a whole lot else..(And, not even margin requirements..)
For a futures account at GxTrader -
1 - Minimum Deposit?
2 - Leverage given, if any?
3 - Minimum Contracts traded allowed? Margin requirements?
Basically, can you trade at minimum 1 contract?
And, whats the 'minimum' cash available needed to place at least one trade or one contract for any of the eMini's? So, for example if you want to buy ONE eMini contract of the S&P, symbol: ES .. would you need to have a minimum of $500 in your account? $1,000? $250? etc. (based on the margin requirements or leveraged account size).
4 - Does the $99 platform fee apply to a "Futures" account?? As the website only says "$99 platform fee unless you trade a minimum 10,000 shares AND/OR a minimum 100 "Option Contracts".) It doesn't mention "Futures Contracts". If so, what's the minimum? Does this also give you access to Plugins and other features?
5 - Does a Futures account give you RT data for Futures? Or, is that included in the $99 monthly platform fee or minimum contracts traded per month?
6 - The website says Intraday Futures data is included but its a bit vague, does that mean you have to pay for a RT Stocks feed and Futures is included? (Or, included as part of the $99 platform fee? Or in addition to the platform fee, one must pay the $64 RT Stocks fee and Futures is included for OmniData RT)
From the website:
" Gxtrader is designed for those clients interested in intraday Futures Trading. And provides the ability to trade e-mini futures contracts from 8-4:10 ET on the Chicago Mercantile Exchange.
Daily Closing of Positions
Each day traders can trade between 8-4:10 ET and are automatically closed out from 4:10-4:15 EST. "
7 - So, this is great and all but rather vague b/c eMini's/Futures markets are open 24/7 ! ... In actuality, does this mean if one has a Futures Account at GxTrader, one can't even get access to the 24 hour market and ONLY standard business hours from approx. 8:00am to 4:10pm?
Because if so, and I'm reading this correctly - - Well, its just concerning as to why we wouldn't have access to the full market during existing, normal 23 1/2 hour trading days..?
[Edited by julesrulesny on 9/18/2012 4:27 PM]
Location: Snellville, GA
I'd like to help answering your questions (I am not with gxtrader or N), and I trade futures including currency futures.
However, it is not clear to me that you are writing about currency futures.
You wrote "Looking to Trade FX Futures which is a relatively newer market that only a handful of brokers are covering".
You also mentioned the forex pips problem, but I do not understand how that would apply in currency futures contracts.
Currency futures have been around for decades, initially on CBOT until CME took over CBOT; virtually every broker that covers futures will allow trading of CME (and other) currency futures.
CME currency futures are denominated in Points, but the point values are actually Points/dollar that vary with each currency in the same way that Points in other futures vary.
You can get this info directly from the CME web site; any futures trader should know all of the contract specifcations, here is an example:
For example, with the British Pound:
Minimum Price Increment = $.0001 per British Pound increments ($6.25/contract), and each contract is for 62,500 BP, which means that one Point in the contract price is worth $10.
Of course, there are other currency futures products.
So, could you be more specific with the currency futures or exchange that you would be trading?
But directly to your point, the fact that gxtrader is not responding to your questions and the fact that they have not yet allowed traders to hold futures positions overnight should be a dead giveaway about gxtrader and futures trading.
[Edited by jawjahtek on 9/19/2012 8:02 AM]
Thanks for responding Ross!
I was trying to keep it simple - just asking of GxT covered Forex Futures. I since got an answer and they do not, even tho other symbols on CME are available. And my post yesterday was asking questions just about 'futures' or 'eminis' at GxT and not related to Forex Futures..(as I alreay got an answer)
I'd be very interested in hearing more about your experiences trading Currency Futures. (if you use OT/VT).. I had NO idea they were around that long, quite honestly, I thought they were literally created this past decade just after the eMini's were created in the late 90s. So apologies for any confusion.
So, I think I know where my confusion came in.. I think maybe recently they have increased in volume in recent years, just like the Spot Market..
I had contacted MB Trading (as of 4 to 6 months ago).. They said they do not cover Forex Futures on the CME.. Tho other symbols are available.. perhaps in the near future, the symbols would be available.. Maybe I was misinformed or the person I spoke with didn't quite understandd what I was saying..But, this has gotten me to want to check gain.
I don't know if the "Forex Pip problem" in OT transcends(no pun intended,lol) to futures. But it would make some sense that it could.. Because if OT can't calculate Pips, which is similar to Points like in futures, and how each symbol points can vary, I can see how voteline and paper trade calculations would be off.. Thus I also been told this a long time ago.. and have heard of others complaining about it.. Never tested this. So, I wasn't saying it is a problem in futures, I was asking if it is?
The most popular exchange that I'm aware of for Currency Futures is indeed the CME, am I correct? The others perhaps aren't as liquid or popular like NYBOT or ICE? (Though, I'm unsure of this..)
[Edited by julesrulesny on 9/19/2012 3:10 PM]
I had ran some tests on other applications, and on paper.. it seems that Futures may offer a viable trading vehicle for me in the near future. I do OK with Forex .. I have gone down this road before, as recently as of last year in looking into Options ..
(I have worked on some trading desks in the past at AIG, Nomura on an Options desk covering bonds, domestic and international equities, emerging markets as well as the futures commodities group. So, this kind of gave me my first taste.. And always have been more interested in Futures Contracts and Forex, even bonds, as opposed to just trading equities..(just b/c of my past job experiences))
So, as for the exchanges, or symbols - I am most interested in the ES (S&P eMini) and perhaps NQ (Nasdaq) as they seem to have the most liquidity, most active, etc..
As for the Forex Futures - I'd prefer USD and EUR, perhaps the YEN and SWISS FRANC. Just like in Forex, the majors would be most appealing..
I am aware of some other Currency Futures on the NYBOT or ICE? But, don't know a whole lot about them. It's all new to me for the most part but I am very interested in learning more. Which is also confusing me too as I was looking at some websites that, for example will list the AUS Dollar on CME at 1.0356 Dec 12 contract but on NYBOT/ICE Dec 12 contract at a different price quote.. So, all I would presume is that this is a completely different symbol/contract?
I already have a futures account at MB Trading but before I take any additional steps, I want to make sure OT/VT can handle the task. Based on my Forex experiences, I wouldn't touch it and would rather invest in new software(if OT/VT handles futures the way it does Forex..).. As I already use a different application for Forex.. So, that's why I was hoping GxTrader may give me what I need.
GxTrader is very "not forthcoming" sort to speak. Since GxT doesn't cover Forex, I never made the switch. But, I would have been willing too make the switch in an effort to help Nirvana expand the biz, tho I'm just a small fry.. But, I'm not going to make the switch if it's not a viable alternative.
Which like you said is a red flag. for a market that is open 24/5 and you can't hold a position over night is a deal breaker.. they don't offer any paper trading accounts from what I can tell and the website seems to be missing key or important information.
Yes I got a response after I sent the initial email almost 2 weeks ago.
I have looked at that link as well and did find out that Forex Futures was not covered at GxT. It's ok as I didn't really expect it too being MBT after I last checked doesn't have them either.
So, in my last post was just trying to get some questions answered that are not available on the website.
Unfortunately, GxT only covers markets from 8am to 410pm. This is concerning as one couldn't hold a position after 4pm as its closed out. eMini markets are open 24 hours a day. More precise, I believe its 23 1/2 hours a day. And I wonder if executions of product orders or liquidity is enough, tho I'm sure it is.
Just trying to cover all areas. I was also told Paper Trading outside of OT/VT is not available. Meaning, the existing Paper Trading already available to us in OT/VT is what we get. For instance, at MBT I have my live accounts and with a live account we get a Paper trading account that can be traded live into MBT like any other live cash account. For me this is a HUGE bonus b/c with Forex, it is quite difficult to paper trade or test forex pairs in OT/VT alone since it doesn't calculate correctly. Which is why I asked if OT/VT has the same issues with Futures? As I'm not sure.
I appreciate the response and feedback.. Unfortunately, at this time unless GxT opens up longer hours or until positions can be held overnight it is not something I can do at this time. I will remain with MBT as I only wanted to open up a GxT account in an effort to further support the expansion of the "Nirvana" product sort to speak..
Location: Snellville, GA
Questions that I can answer:
'I don't know if the "Forex Pip problem" in OT transcends (no pun intended, lol) to futures.'
No, it doesn't.
However, OT does not read Open Interest for futures.
OT reads Options Call and Put OI, but not futures.
Therefore my analysis of futures with OT is limited to testing price based systems, typically on continuous contract data.
Not good (continuous contracts cannot be traded, the trades are not the same as individual contracts). My other data vendor supplies the data that I actually use to trade futures.
'The most popular exchange that I'm aware of for Currency Futures is indeed the CME, am I correct?'
For most currency futures, yes, but there are exceptions.
'The others perhaps aren't as liquid or popular like NYBOT or ICE?'
ICE has the Dollar Index and a competitive mini-Gold future.
Once in a blue moon (and this year was one of them) the Dixie is a good vehicle.
Gold has become an alternate currency and essential for relative strength analysis against paper currencies.
'Which is also confusing me too as I was looking at some websites that, for example will list the AUS Dollar on CME at 1.0356 Dec 12 contract but on NYBOT/ICE Dec 12 contract at a different price quote.. So, all I would presume is that this is a completely different symbol/contract?'
Yes, they are (usually) completely different contracts (there are a small number of joint listings for non-currency futures). I maintain a spreadsheet with all of the major contracts, their contract specifications, current margin requirements at my broker, etc.
Occasionally, ICE or some other exchange will launch a competing product with smaller Point size (i.e., less risk per contract). This is a good example of why I have to track OI, contract specs, etc. Other exchanges can make competing contracts with more favorable terms (for me); but they have to get OI, or else they are not tradable.
'I already have a futures account at MB Trading but before I take any additional steps, I want to make sure OT/VT can handle the task. Based on my Forex experiences, I wouldn't touch it and would rather invest in new software(if OT/VT handles futures the way it does Forex..).. As I already use a different application for Forex'
If I was you, I would stay with the application that I already know. For me, that is OT combined with some other software. But OT's limitations with futures mean that my futures trading is limited to when a market is moving one way (e.g., corn in a drought, euro with a country leaving, etc.)
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