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Difference between OSCAN and Market ScanEOD?
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divezilla

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Subject : Difference between OSCAN and Market ScanEOD?
Posted : 5/1/2013 12:44 PM
Post #28282

What does Market Scan EOD provide that isn't already in Omniscan EOD?
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Barry Cohen

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Subject : RE: Difference between OSCAN and Market ScanEOD?
Posted : 5/1/2013 6:26 PM
Post #28287 - In reply to #28282

The ability to have VT10 scan groups as well as the Sort & filter feature.
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Jim Dean

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Subject : RE: Difference between OSCAN and Market ScanEOD?
Posted : 5/1/2013 6:34 PM
Post #28288 - In reply to #28287

FWIW, IMHO ...

Sort and Peel are VERY useful features! I was hoping that they would be added to OmniScan EOD ... but if you're using Scans with EOD-only, I'd suggest that you consider MarketScans as a useful upgrade. It's not a replacement for OmniScan since it has very limited custom filter capabilities, and no fundamentals filtering ... but the ability to Sort the "hits" and then "peel" the top-ten (or whatever) from that sorted list is a REALLY good thing.

Maybe Nirvana will provide a cheaper subscription price to someone who wants to just use MarketScans for EOD ... but hopefully the Sort and Peel will be added to OmniScan soon.

[Edited by Jim Dean on 5/1/2013 6:40 PM]

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divezilla

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Subject : RE: Difference between OSCAN and Market ScanEOD?
Posted : 5/1/2013 8:56 PM
Post #28289 - In reply to #28287

I'd buy it in a heartbeat *IF* I could use my own lists as a starting population.


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divezilla

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Subject : RE: Difference between OSCAN and Market ScanEOD?
Posted : 5/1/2013 9:00 PM
Post #28290 - In reply to #28287

HMM.. Barry .. it really seems like a stretch.
VT Omniscan already has these features except the VT10 Scan groups.

Seems like scan groups could easily have used the existing Omniscan.


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Duxx

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Subject : RE: Difference between OSCAN and Market ScanEOD?
Posted : 5/18/2013 11:15 PM
Post #28353 - In reply to #28287

It would be useful a quick tutorial on what market scans bring to the table for EOD compared to regular Omniscan - sort and filter is already in VT... the only difference is you can bring automatically the scan into your OT or VT.

But not sure if there is anything else that we as EOD users are missing. I would agree that market scans for day traders is a must.
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Barry Cohen

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Subject : RE: Difference between OSCAN and Market ScanEOD?
Posted : 5/20/2013 10:22 AM
Post #28359 - In reply to #28353

MS EOD gets you a few things.

1. Sort AND filter (or peel as Jim says). So for example you can stipulate in MarketScans that you only want to see the top 30 symbols by volume & it will filter out the rest. Not only that, but as the sort changes which symbols are the top 30 MarketScans will change them.

VT OmniScan DOES have a filtering feature, but it's tied to the groups with the min & max. Nothing wrong with that, just filters a little differently.

2. The other feature you would get with MarketScans EOD in VT is the ability to add a scan group into VT10. This is a plate on the map that is solely tied to a particular scan in MarketScans. As symbols change in the scan the group in VT syncs with it. A scan group can be applied to any map whereas a VT EOD OmniScan is entire map.

The differences are slight, for now, but having an EOD version of MarketScans allows us to do more with it in the future, not to mention the ability to use MS at a cheaper cost.

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Keith Parsons

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Subject : RE: Difference between OSCAN and Market ScanEOD?
Posted : 10/17/2014 6:06 AM
Post #33602 - In reply to #28359

Hi Barry,
Is there a webinar on Market Scans ? I have read / been thru the MS User Guide.

Many tks,

KEITH PARSONS
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Barry Cohen

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Subject : RE: Difference between OSCAN and Market ScanEOD?
Posted : 10/17/2014 5:15 PM
Post #33603 - In reply to #33602

I don't believe there is one, but there's a demo of it in the VT10 demo here.
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John J

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Subject : RE: Difference between OSCAN and Market ScanEOD?
Posted : 6/12/2017 1:52 PM
Post #41102 - In reply to #28282

I signed up for Marketscan just recently.

However, due to some rather important limitations in Marketscan, I'm not sure if I will continue the subscription due to the following reasons;

1. Marketscan won't allow me to use Olang indicators or plugins in the Criteria Rules.
2. "US stocks with weekly options" cannot be selected as a Starting Population.

I realize that Marketscan is an independent product, but once it's synced with either OT or VT, we should have access to the same features as those found in Omniscan IMHO.

[Edited by John J on 6/12/2017 1:54 PM]

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Jim Dean

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Subject : RE: Difference between OSCAN and Market ScanEOD?
Posted : 6/12/2017 3:58 PM
Post #41103 - In reply to #41102

I agree that plugins make sense to be added, since N owns that code.

But, since MS (which is great btw - had it since beta) is fully server based, it's impractical to incorporate OLang indicators, as much as I'd like to see it happen - they've only recently added it to OVest and that's taken them a few years to get completed.

It's my guess that Cose could add that extra starting-population list to MS in less than an hours time, presuming he gets mgmt approval.

Also, note that MS does allow custom OmniScript formulae to be used. OScript is extremely powerful if you know the tricks - it can even support things like looping and if/then (in certain ways). So, many simple OLang routines can be represented by OScript formulae. It's sort of like coding a long equation into an Excel spreadsheet cell.

And, OScript executes *very* fast, since it's compiled. I've a lot of personal experience with this. I've written OScript formulae that are over 30,000 characters long (!!!), which execute (in OVest for instance) with no perceptible speed impact.

If you'd like to post a (simple) OLang routine here, I'll give a stab at translating it for you as an example. If it's do-able but too complex to implement simply, we can discuss having it done for a fair price.

MS (and OScript) are great tools. Don't give up on them too quickly!

[Edited by Jim Dean on 6/12/2017 4:01 PM]

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John J

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Subject : RE: Difference between OSCAN and Market ScanEOD?
Posted : 6/13/2017 12:54 PM
Post #41104 - In reply to #28282

Hi Jim,

I realize that Starting Populations and proprietary Nirv lists etc are server based, but everything that goes into the Criteria Rules window runs locally on my computer, right? Hence, the processing of any scripts is only limited to my computer's processing power, which rules out any server or internet associated bottlenecks.

Barry would probably be able to confirm this, but I think the real reason as to why the plugins/Olang routines aren't available, has to do with the fact that MS is a stand alone product, which incorporates a simple one-way sync with OT/VT (only job is to populate the focus list). MS has an export feature. I think an import feature needs to be incorporated as well, which would allow OT/VT users to import plugins/Olang routines.

[Edited by John J on 6/13/2017 12:55 PM]

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Jim Dean

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Subject : RE: Difference between OSCAN and Market ScanEOD?
Posted : 6/13/2017 12:57 PM
Post #41105 - In reply to #41104

All the calcs, including OScripts, are server based. That was one of the first Q's I asked when MS was first released several years ago. What's on your machine is simply a GUI interface, and a way of linking MS results to OT/VT

As I recall there is a limit of three custom OScans at a time. That's part of the server limitation.

I agree the expansion you describe would be helpful. But to finance it they would likely need a lot more subscribers.

[Edited by Jim Dean on 6/13/2017 1:00 PM]

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Barry Cohen

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Subject : RE: Difference between OSCAN and Market ScanEOD?
Posted : 6/13/2017 1:15 PM
Post #41106 - In reply to #41105

We added the "US stocks with weekly options" list in MarketScans today, so it will be in an update very soon.

As for OL, Jim is correct. MarketScans calculations are 100% done on our servers. That's very different from our traditional OmniScan EOD where everything is done on the user's PC. We would need a way for users to upload their OL indicators to our servers, which is certainly possible (since we now allow this with uploading strategies to OmniVest), but it would take some work. We could add our plugin indicators though without much work.

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John J

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Subject : RE: Difference between OSCAN and Market ScanEOD?
Posted : 6/13/2017 1:27 PM
Post #41107 - In reply to #28282

Great news Barry..!!!

I would love to see those features incorporated, which will make me a happy subscriber to MS..!!
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Jim Dean

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Subject : RE: Difference between OSCAN and Market ScanEOD?
Posted : 6/13/2017 1:28 PM
Post #41108 - In reply to #41106

Thanks for confirmation

I think MS is a great tool, and would be even more useful with expansion of plugin and OLang indicators, esp now that you've paved the way with the OVest solution.

I hope you can get enough subscribers to make that possible!
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John J

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Subject : RE: Difference between OSCAN and Market ScanEOD?
Posted : 6/13/2017 2:41 PM
Post #41110 - In reply to #28282

Hi Jim.

To be frank, I don't see how useful MS really is to none Nirv customers, as long as it can't be dynamically interfaced through API to Excel or other 3rd party applications?

As far as I'm concerned, the main focus should be to make it as useful as possible to existing OT/VT users. That's how to leverage word of mouth marketing...
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Jim Dean

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Subject : RE: Difference between OSCAN and Market ScanEOD?
Posted : 6/13/2017 3:10 PM
Post #41111 - In reply to #41110

MS provides fast scanning for Realtime intraday trading. It interfaces with extremely versatile trading engines (OT+VT). N has never been in the business of selling data feeds for use in other engines. Export from MS to excel would have very short lived value, since intraday bar patterns change so rapidly. But I believe that you could try copy/paste from OT FL driven by MS, for a snapshot usable in Excel. I just can't see the value of it.

The huge value of MS comes in the fast preprocessing of large symbol lists down to targeted ones, without burdening the CPU of a local machine. If you've had experience trying to implement complex scans on large population lists, from within OT, with fast intraday bars - as a part of all the rest of the strategy logic, you'll undoubtedly have run into significant speed issues - the local CPU can't keep up with the fast-changing bars on large focus lists.

Example: take any robust N strategy, apply to OT using 3min bars, with the SP500 loaded for the FL. Then add a robust formula in the filter block to act in place of the scan. You'll almost certainly find that the machine is very sluggish and the resulting trades are delayed or missed.

Furthermore, OT doesn't allow really big FL's to be loaded for reatime intraday (as I recall the limit is 500), such as the 4000 Optionable stocks. The only way to get a realtime strategy to work on that big a list is to feed the list into MS, cull it down to a reasonable and useful subset, then link that into OT for the robust strategy to work on.

Yet further: in OT/VT, aside from using MS, there is no realtime way to create a FL via "ranking" rules that trim off the cream of the crop of a long list.

All of these reasons apply to mechanical trading intraday. There are a bunch of other reasons why MS helps with discretionary intraday (not my thing).

I believe that the things I've mentioned would be "turbocharged" by expanding MS to include support for plugin indicators and custom OLang. That's why I've made the positive posts in this thread.

[Edited by Jim Dean on 6/13/2017 3:14 PM]

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Barry Cohen

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Subject : RE: Difference between OSCAN and Market ScanEOD?
Posted : 6/13/2017 3:13 PM
Post #41112 - In reply to #41110

If you don't have OT or VT, a MS user can use it to scan for lists, sort them, & take the top stocks for trading candidates. You can scan premarket & see how the market is doing before market open. Or put the lists into another software program. If you right-click a MS list, it allows you to copy the list to your clipboard & you can paste it anywhere.
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John J

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Subject : RE: Difference between OSCAN and Market ScanEOD?
Posted : 6/15/2017 2:09 PM
Post #41123 - In reply to #28282

I was going to port the KB Squeeze scan to MS, but quickly discovered that it can't be done without modifications I guess.

The KB Squeeze in OScan is using the KLTC_UPPER/LOWER (KeltnerChannelClassic), which isn't included in MS.

The Squeeze Classic scan can't be ported either without modifications, as it's using the BBB indicator included in the Squeeze trader plugin.


[Edited by John J on 6/15/2017 2:22 PM]

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Jim Dean

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Subject : RE: Difference between OSCAN and Market ScanEOD?
Posted : 6/15/2017 2:30 PM
Post #41124 - In reply to #41123

Keltner upper & lower channels (adjust periods, MA type, and multipliers to taste):
Klt_Upper(20) ... aka ... SMA(20) + 1.5*ATR(14)
Klt_Lower(20) ... aka ... SMA(20) - 1.5*ATR(14)
Bollinger upper & lower channels (adjust to taste):
Bol_Upper(20,2) ... aka ... SMA(20) + 2*STD(20)
Bol_Lower(20,2) ... aka ... SMA(20) - 2*STD(20)

Squeeze:
when BB's are inside the KC
Breakout:
when one/both BB's move outside the KC

SCAN for an active squeeze:
Bol_Upper(20,2) < Klt_Upper(20) and Bol_Lower(20,2) > Klt_Lower(20)

SCAN for a current-bar breakout from the squeeze:
Bol_Upper(20,2)[1] < Klt_Upper(20)[1] and Bol_Lower(20,2)[1] > Klt_Lower(20)[1]
and
Bol_Upper(20,2) > Klt_Upper(20) or Bol_Lower(20,2) < Klt_Lower(20)


If the Bol_xxx or Klt_xxx functions are not currently avail in MS then use the aka substitutes shown above.

Voila!
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John J

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Subject : RE: Difference between OSCAN and Market ScanEOD?
Posted : 6/15/2017 3:15 PM
Post #41125 - In reply to #41124

Thanks Jim,

However, your scan doesn't produce the same results on a test ran in a Daily timeframe;

Your SCAN for an active KB squeeze:
Bol_Upper(20,2) < Klt_Upper(20) and Bol_Lower(20,2) > Klt_Lower(20) = Count of 4

Nirv SCAN for an active KB squeeze:
BOL_UPPER(20,2)[1] < KLTC_UPPER(20,10,2)[1] AND BOL_LOWER(20,2)[1] > KLTC_LOWER(20,10,2)[1] = Count of 14

While I was running these tests I noticed that there is a discrepancy between the Indexes/ALL Optionable US stock counts in OScan and MS. Any particular reason for this Barry?

OScan:


Marketscan:



[Edited by John J on 6/15/2017 3:29 PM]

Attached file : Capture.JPG (50KB - 295 downloads)
Attached file : Capture2.JPG (35KB - 259 downloads)

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Jim Dean

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Subject : RE: Difference between OSCAN and Market ScanEOD?
Posted : 6/15/2017 3:24 PM
Post #41126 - In reply to #41125

As I said - adjust Params to taste. The kltc Params 20 10 2 are different than the ones I put in the formula, and it may be that the kltc uses EMA versus SMA. Not sure. You can check the docs for the kltc in Help.

I posted the formulae to try to help you and others work with MS via squeeze logic, not in attempt to precisely duplicate the plugin.

The squeeze can take many forms. The formula I gave should identify squeeze candidates - just check the charts.

Hopefully this might help until N has time to add plugins to MS.

[Edited by Jim Dean on 6/15/2017 3:25 PM]

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John J

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Subject : RE: Difference between OSCAN and Market ScanEOD?
Posted : 6/15/2017 3:45 PM
Post #41127 - In reply to #28282

Hi Jim,

Yes, I realize that the squeeze can take many forms etc. I even created a variation of the squeeze scan last year with different parameters. When it comes to the scans created by Nirv though, I presume they stem from elaborate testing, which I would like to use right out of the box without having to "reinvent the wheel" so to speak. Like you said, let's hope they are able to incorporate plugins and Olang routines into MS...

Barry, are you able to respond to the other question I have?
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Barry Cohen

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Subject : RE: Difference between OSCAN and Market ScanEOD?
Posted : 6/16/2017 4:09 PM
Post #41132 - In reply to #41125

There are a few reasons why they are different. First, understand that MarketScans is all on our servers. OmniScan is on each user's local drive. So that can cause differences. But if you have updated your OmniScan lists in OT, in theory they should match or be very close to MarketScans. We checked into this today & found a couple reasons why they do not.

1. MarketScans does not have ETFs. We're improving MarketScans to include them.
2. OmniScan's standard lists (SP100, NAS100, Russells, etc) are slightly older than the MarketScans lists. We'll be releasing a fix for this in a ToDo List download next week.


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