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OmniTrader 2013 Technical Support
Pivot Points (7) Indicator
Last Activity 9/16/2017 11:23 AM
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Paul-Jay

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Subject : Pivot Points (7) Indicator
Posted : 1/18/2014 2:11 PM
Post #30660

Could anyone please tell me what the formula is which is used for calculating the Pivot Points (7) indicator diagonal long and short lines LINES DRAWN on the charts please.

Can you also tell me how the SHORT, MEDIUM and LONG pivot points drawn on the charts are calculated?

You help would really be greatly appreciated!
Ps. OMNITRADER is just the BEST!!

Paul-Jay
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Jim Dean

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Subject : RE: Pivot Points (7) Indicator
Posted : 1/18/2014 2:49 PM
Post #30661 - In reply to #30660

Hi Paul-Jay - welcome to the forum!

There is a long and detailed answer to your question.

The shortest answer is ... "it's proprietary" ... that is, Nirvana has never officially revealed all the formulae and logic to duplicate what they do, and they have been asked a bunch of times so don't hold your breath.

Intermediate answer ... pivots are formed when the price retraces at least "X" ATR's away from an extreme (H or L) ... you don't know that a Pivot IS a pivot till some # of bars afterwards, so Pivots are "hindsight" events. The X multiplier is input using the word "Sensitivity" in many of the N products.

(potentially) Long answer ... bottom line ... it is possible using OLang to exactly duplicate N's pivots from scratch, but it is NOT SIMPLE ... the ATR rule I just mentioned actually has several nuances to it that only can be discovered by cut and try.

RE short med and long ... AS I RECALL, these are nominally calibrated to produce pivots on very rough average intervals of about 32 bars, 64 bars, and 128 bars. But my memory could be wrong about the #'s ... and it doesn't matter anyways because it's just a way of thinking about it. In reality, it is MOST LIKELY (but proprietary so who knows?) that the short med and long distinction is simply increasing values of "X" that I mentioned earlier. That is, a BIG mult of ATR retracement-required will only find a few pivots (Long), while a SMALL mult will find a lot of them (Short).

Hopefully this explanation can be "stickied" by Barry since lots of people wonder about this. If you do a search for "Pivots" on the forum you will probably get LOTS of hits.

I hope this answers your questions adequately.

[Edited by Jim Dean on 1/18/2014 2:51 PM]

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Paul-Jay

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Subject : RE: Pivot Points (7) Indicator
Posted : 1/18/2014 3:59 PM
Post #30662 - In reply to #30660

Hi Jim thanks for your quick reply! I really appreciate it. I've been looking at how Pivot's are formed, but what truly puzzles me is that the software draws the line even when the price gives absolutely no indication of whether or not it is indeed forming a pivot point but the line is always "right". Once the line is drawn the reversal starts occurring. How does the calculation determine where and when to draw the line. The line is only drawn at the exact instant a pivot is formed and is always right. You don't really need to wait to see if the price is turning up or down or for any other confirmation. The Pivot Points (7) seems to draw the line at the right time every time (with only a few exceptions!)
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Jim Dean

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Subject : RE: Pivot Points (7) Indicator
Posted : 1/18/2014 4:05 PM
Post #30663 - In reply to #30662

I mentioned "hindsight" in my original post. Another less-PC way of saying it is that the Pivot drawing routine "cheats" ... it uses FUTURE bars to discover that a given bar is a pivot, and draws the line there after it knows.

You can see this "hindsight" in action if you watch the HRE (Hard Right Edge) of the screen as bars develop ... the final-leg of a Pivot sawtooth does not appear until a few bars have passed.

This is also true for the ZigZag lines in the WaveTrader plugin.

It also is used for the "Market Reversal" exit options.

Many warnings are given in the forums, and in the Help, NOT to use Market Reversal exits for real trading, OR as a yardstick for real-life strategy performance, since the exits are based on pivots. MR exits are intended for System development purposes, or for pure discretionary traders.
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Paul-Jay

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Subject : RE: Pivot Points (7) Indicator
Posted : 1/18/2014 11:14 PM
Post #30665 - In reply to #30660

Jim, my heart sank as I read the posts about pivots!! I was getting so excited and wondered how OT got this "MAGIC" line!!!

It's a bit detrimental though, especially for beginners as it can be extremely misleading! One should really not use it when learning or perhaps just use it for "confirmation" by the OT "teacher" in GAME or LAB mode that your OWN predictive measures were in fact right or wrong!

I thought I was going to make a million bucks in 18 months starting with 25 000 !!! hehehe But don't worry, I'll get over it! :-) One good thing came out of it, when I saw it happening I wanted to find out which indicators were also confirming these "PIVOT POINTS" spot on and I actually found two that do. I just hope now that they too are not looking ahead at the data in GAME or LAB mode!! You could perhaps check these if you like, they are;

Chaikin Peak Levels and;
Commodity Channel Crossover

Now I only hope that they are not also looking ahead (or the GAME and LAB mode would be a total waste of time!!) :-)

Thanks so much for your time taken to assist me! It is much appreciated.

God bless!
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Jim Dean

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Subject : RE: Pivot Points (7) Indicator
Posted : 1/19/2014 5:17 AM
Post #30666 - In reply to #30665

Chaikin and CCI don't use hindsight.

This pivots thing is the nature of the beast - it's true in any trading analysis tool, not just OT.

And your reactions to it, both hopeful and back to earth, are quite typical, so don't feel badly.

The only things in OT that use hindsight are pivots drawn on the screen, Market Reversal exits (and strategies that use them), and the "Current+N Forming Bar" higher-timeframe models (and in some cases the "-N" Forming Bar options) in the System Block, Filter block, and Confirm block of strategies. The latter two of those three blocks do offer non-hindsight Current+N models which are "safe" (Previous and Dynamic).

That, in a nutshell, completely covers the ground re hindsight cautions. It's only a tiny part of the wealth of stuff that OT offers. So, don't fret about it, just be aware and use those things with proper caution and understanding.

[Edited by Jim Dean on 1/19/2014 5:20 AM]

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