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FOLIOfn
Partial Close-out from Foliofn
Last Activity 5/25/2010 4:37 PM
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bobo123

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Subject : Partial Close-out from Foliofn
Posted : 6/24/2004 8:18 PM
Post #3304

I openned a couple of small positions using the foliofn interface and it worked fine. Then I decided to try to sell half of a position, found it will readily close out the whole position from the interface, but does not permit a partial close-out. I played with the Target metric, but when I go to the foliofn website, the preview always shows a full closeout. ( I discussed this some with Barry Cohen, and I think we felt that a partial would have to be done on the foliofn website.)

My question is: It would be nice to get the folio interface to agree with what the website portfolio. Since I have real money on the line here, how do I do that? If I sell half of a position on the folio website, when I activate the interface and update it, will it automatically reflect the reduced number of shares? I could just go ahead and sell half, then open the interface and try it out.Will the s/w handle that?

Thanks,

Bob
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Barry Cohen

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Subject : RE: Partial Close-out from Foliofn
Posted : 6/25/2004 9:11 AM
Post #3311 - In reply to #3304

You are able to close a partial. It's done by percentage which you can change with the up & down arrows on the right side of the interface. Wasn't the problem that you didn't have those arrows?
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bobo123

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Subject : RE: Partial Close-out from Foliofn
Posted : 6/25/2004 11:39 AM
Post #3312 - In reply to #3304

Barry, thank you for responding. You are right,we did conclude that I should be able to do a partial closeout of a trade using the interface when we talked recently.

However, it did not work.Let me explain with numbers. I funded my foliofn account with $20K. Right now I am just checking things out; using the foliofn free Watchlist function is helpful, but it does not make trades with the window, and I felt that I should make sure I really understand the foliofn interface well before I commit to this system. (I am still leery with the no-stop policy with foliofn, but the concept has real merit for longer term trading of fundamentally strong stocks. However I want to use my own picks to "stock" this portfolio, so I will be adding to it piecemeal.)

I went long on 2 stocks; Stock A @ 39.60, 10+ shr ($400) and Stock B @ 28.63, 20.95 shrs ($600), 2 days ago. So the total stake is about $1000 of the $20K invested.

To test partial-closeout ability, I decided to sell roughly half of Stock B. As I understand this process, the %Target you would use is based upon the TOTAL account size ($20,000); thus I should shoot for 1/2 of $600 = $300.That calls for a %Target=300/20000= 1.5%. The allowed minimum is 1%, so it should work. So I set it for 1%, went back to my Focus List, clicked in the Trade column, and the "L" changes to a "C" and the highlight goes to a light blue,just as I understand it should do. I went back to the Interface, clicked the Preview Order button, the foliofn website preview pops up as it should. However, it shows a TOTAL position closeout, not a partial.I backed out by clicking the"C" off in the Focus List.

The good news is that this morning I decided to go ahead and place the partial closeout from the folio website directly. It was filled at the 11AM window correctly, and when I launched OT after that, opened the folio interface, updated it, it did indeed reflect the partial closeout.

I have no problem doing partial closeouts from the folio website directly; indeed the granularity offered in the folio interface is not really fine enough anyway. It offers 1% minimum ( probably ok) but only whole-number increments ( should permit finer precision)

If I am incorrect in my understanding of how this is supposed to work, please advise.

Overall, I think this whole concept is great.

Thanks,

Bob

P.S. Barry, what does "include signature in this post" refer to? This appears below every post...
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Barry Cohen

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Subject : RE: Partial Close-out from Foliofn
Posted : 6/28/2004 12:20 PM
Post #3328 - In reply to #3312

The partial should work. It shouldn't do a total closeout. I'll try testing it on mine.

As for the partial percentage, if you want 1.5%, just left-click the Target % for the stock you want to edit & you'll be allowed to change that field by typing in the percent you want.

I replied to your signature question in the other post which you already saw.
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Subject : RE: Partial Close-out from Foliofn
Posted : 6/28/2004 12:49 PM
Post #3329 - In reply to #3304

Try doing a rebalance. If you have 10% and want to sell half rebalance to 5%. I have not tryed this yet but I have rebalanced to a highter %.
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Barry Cohen

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Subject : RE: Partial Close-out from Foliofn
Posted : 6/28/2004 2:35 PM
Post #3330 - In reply to #3329

Cliff is correct. Highlight the symbol in your interface, then change the percentage. Then right-click it & select rebalance. Now you'll be able to preview the order & will only close partially. I just tested it so it does work.
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bobo123

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Subject : RE: Partial Close-out from Foliofn
Posted : 6/29/2004 12:01 PM
Post #3331 - In reply to #3304

Cliff and Barry,

Thank you both.Everything worked out fine. For the benefit of others who might run into this, let me detail some of the points in partial selling of a position that I just made.

1.The key is NOT to go to the Focus List first, and fool with "L" or "C". In fact, until you log in to the Foliofn Interface first, the "L" does not show up in the Focus List until you do. (This issue has been brought up before..I personally do not have a problem with that..) Just go directly to the Interface,and log in.

2. Under the Folio Holdings tab, Highlight the position you wish to patially close. You can use the coarse Target % changer OR just click on the Target% entry and type in the % for better precision. This percentage is the % of your TOTAL portfolio, INCLUDING cash.

3.Left click the row to get the dark-blue highlight. Then right-click the row, click on Rebalance, and it turns yellow, with the Target % at your new %.

4. Hit Preview Order button, the Interface Preview pops up. When ready to commit, hit Place Order button. Now the highlighted row in the Interface is red, and at the bottom of the Interface window, the little box is now also red, meaning no additional orders on that symbol can be placed,(such as stop-loss).If you ever expand this feature to other brokers that permit stops, this would remain green I presume...

5.As a check, go to the Foliofn website; a pending window order should be indicated.

6.The website did indicate that the window trade was executed as directed. However, the Holdings Table did NOT show the reduction in shares.(The manual does mention that the process can take time).The same is true for the OT Interface; the holdings were not yet changed, but the red box was back to green indicating that another trade could be directed on that symbol.

7. About 45 minutes after the close of the window, the foliofn website did now show the new correct shares held. I logged back into OT, logged into the Interface, and it now showed the correct number of shares remaining in the position.

Again, I think this is a nice step forward in trading directly from the platform. Just wish I could get more comfortable with not having stops. The trading commissions are great, but I will not do swing trading; just longer-term excellent fundamentals-type stocks.

Thanks much!

Bob
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Barry Cohen

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Subject : RE: Partial Close-out from Foliofn
Posted : 6/29/2004 3:14 PM
Post #3334 - In reply to #3331

Awesome list Bobo & I'm glad you got it to work for you!

Yes it does take a bit of time sometimes for Folio to update the information. Unfortunately this is a part of FolioFN & out of our control.

As far as stops go, you could use OmniTrader normally with the stocks you have in your Folio, they just won't appear in the Folio interface. You can get stops from using OT's strategies or you can use OT's Portfolio interface to alert you when it hits a pre-defined stop that you set up. As you know, there is no compatibility for stops in the Folio interface yet, so both of these work-arounds would be completely separate from FolioFN.
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