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OT 2017 Indicator Tabs
Last Activity 5/22/2018 4:21 PM
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Hey Ed!

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Subject : OT 2017 Indicator Tabs
Posted : 4/8/2017 6:21 PM
Post #28498

From the 2017 PDF:

"In OmniTrader 2017, ....................You also can
use indicator tabs, maximizing chart space and making organizing your indicators easier than ever before. "

Must one use chart tabs? The extra 'tabbie' on each indicator pane is messing up my chart indicator pane visuals. Can I do indicator panes using the old non-tab panes? Is there a on off use tabs 'chart option' setting?
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Barry Cohen

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Subject : RE: OT 2017 Indicator Tabs
Posted : 4/9/2017 10:10 PM
Post #28499 - In reply to #28498

You don't have to use them. Just add them like before. Post a screenshot if you have an issue with them.
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Hey Ed!

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Subject : RE: OT 2017 Indicator Tabs
Posted : 4/9/2017 10:38 PM
Post #28500 - In reply to #28499

OT2016 4 charts of Citibank. Busy but this layout conveys a ton of information in multiple time frames. Everything from momentum to volume to trend, colorized and by virtue of time frames presents context for the eye brain to filter trend bias (or trend denial).
Attached file : Screen Shot 04-09-17 at 11.30 PM.PNG (187KB - 94 downloads)

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Hey Ed!

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Subject : RE: OT 2017 Indicator Tabs
Posted : 4/9/2017 10:41 PM
Post #28501 - In reply to #28498

Same security, same number of bars (90) presented in OT2017
Attached file : Screen Shot 04-09-17 at 11.33 PM.PNG (168KB - 76 downloads)

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Hey Ed!

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Subject : RE: OT 2017 Indicator Tabs
Posted : 4/9/2017 10:44 PM
Post #28502 - In reply to #28498

Same in OT2017 as a 2 window presentation
Attached file : Screen Shot 04-09-17 at 11.34 PM.PNG (146KB - 56 downloads)

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Hey Ed!

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Subject : RE: OT 2017 Indicator Tabs
Posted : 4/9/2017 10:49 PM
Post #28503 - In reply to #28498

Finally, as a one window display. But, all multiple time frame context is lost!
Attached file : Screen Shot 04-09-17 at 11.33 PM 001.PNG (156KB - 71 downloads)

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Jim Dean

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Subject : RE: OT 2017 Indicator Tabs
Posted : 4/10/2017 4:39 AM
Post #28504 - In reply to #28503

I agree that turning off the chart tabs is something that should be a user choice in options.

It's a tricky thing to modify aspects of the program that impact screen appearance and organization - that's at the very heart of how people use and customize the tool.

Please provide a toggle.
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Barry Cohen

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Subject : RE: OT 2017 Indicator Tabs
Posted : 4/10/2017 3:23 PM
Post #28506 - In reply to #28500

Thanks, I see what you mean now. Having a toggle to switch between the old method & new method would be nice, but very difficult to do so I'm told.

We realized early on in the chart tab design that overlapping the labels with the indicator plot made the new chart tabs extremely difficult to view & use.

By having the labels separated, the indicator is clear since they aren't sharing the space. We did figure that a little chart area would be lost by doing it this way for some, but I think if you make some slight modifications in your chart template it can work for you.

I made an attempt at your template, though not complete wit color charts, etc, but enough where you can see it. You may just need to resize the indicator panes slightly to get it visible. If you move your cursor between each indicator it will change to a resize cursor & you can drag it up/down.

The 2nd chart is the same except I made the MFI & CHP indicators share the same pane where you can select them by tab, merely showing you that it is possible to use partial tabs & not have all of your indicators sharing a pane.


Attached file : tab1.jpg (200KB - 442 downloads)

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Jim Dean

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Subject : RE: OT 2017 Indicator Tabs
Posted : 4/10/2017 3:35 PM
Post #28507 - In reply to #28506

Hi Barry

I'm confused. Why did anyone think that having multiple indicator tabs would be beneficial, given that we already have chart tabs?

Personally I'd prefer to see OT revert to the prior established method that everyone was used to.
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Barry Cohen

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Subject : RE: OT 2017 Indicator Tabs
Posted : 4/10/2017 3:45 PM
Post #28508 - In reply to #28507

We've never had stackable chart pane tabs before 2017. It allows someone to use a ton of indicator panes without compromising chart space. We've had plenty of requests for it over the years. And the old method of overlaying indicators on top of each other wasn't removed. You can see that in the above example in the MACD pane.
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Jim Dean

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Subject : RE: OT 2017 Indicator Tabs
Posted : 4/10/2017 4:03 PM
Post #28509 - In reply to #28508

Thanks for clarifying. I had thought most of the requests were for multiple y axes on the same chart so the numbers did not overwrite one another. I guess I just hate to give up limited screen space to stuff that I don't need.

But hey, if that what everyone else wanted - I withdraw my question. As Spock would say: "the needs of the many …"
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Barry Cohen

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Subject : RE: OT 2017 Indicator Tabs
Posted : 4/10/2017 4:06 PM
Post #28511 - In reply to #28509

Right. The only thing that we removed (some would say fixed) in 2017 was the overlapping of the indicator plot with the label, which 'Hey Ed' was commenting about due to the small difference in chart space the labels now take up.
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Hey Ed!

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Subject : RE: OT 2017 Indicator Tabs
Posted : 4/10/2017 7:53 PM
Post #28512 - In reply to #28498

<< And the old method of overlaying indicators on top of each other wasn't removed. You can see that in the above example in the MACD pane.>>

In the new schema, can I plot an OT system in an existing indicator pane as I did with the WCI-HFE plotted in the MFI indicator but with the WCI-HFE indicator plot to be greyed out but allow the OT system to print red and green signals at > +/- 170 CCI events.

If you use an OT system to print signals it seems to require an indicator. Why? What purpose for the indicator plot when the signal has all the juice?
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Barry Cohen

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Subject : RE: OT 2017 Indicator Tabs
Posted : 4/11/2017 10:03 AM
Post #28513 - In reply to #28512

I'm not 100% following what you mean, but if you were able to before you should still have the capability. I made an attempt at what I think you asked for. This is the WCI-HFE overlayed on the MFI indicator, but greyed out where you can just see the WCI-HFE signals. Just have to manually change the color of each parameter for WCI-HFE.



Maybe you're referring to the fact that this system plots an indicator along with signals, & not just signals. There are some systems that only plot signals, it just depends on how it's coded. For example plotting VBX-3 or RSI-X has no indicator, just plots signals.

Alternatively, if you're only interested in getting the WCI-HFE signals on the right edge, you can add the WCI-HFE system column to your Focus List. Another possibility is to use a strategy with the WCI-HFE & use the voteline for historical & new signals.

Attached file : plot.jpg (26KB - 342 downloads)

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Hey Ed!

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Subject : RE: OT 2017 Indicator Tabs
Posted : 4/11/2017 2:19 PM
Post #28514 - In reply to #28498

If you look at my upload of 4/9 11:49, the "one panel" upload, you will see that my signals are plotting in the price panel while the greyed out WCI-HFE indicator is hidden in the MFI plot indicator panel.

Actually, since this plot is from an OT2017 indicator tabbed product, it proves that the 2 indicators in one indicator panel does work.

Incidentally, I did a forum search of the indicator tab "enhancement" and I found no-one requesting it, no-one lauding it's implementation and no-one complaining about it (except my thread). So I have to assume that indicator tabs is a product marketing initiative.

[Edited by Hey Ed! on 4/11/2017 2:25 PM]

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Hey Ed!

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Subject : RE: OT 2017 Indicator Tabs
Posted : 4/11/2017 3:17 PM
Post #28515 - In reply to #28498


I use a VHI indicator panel to provide a space where I can print a purple color chart background to alert me to the market preparing end of trading day. However, the MFI (volume enhanced RSI) is a vastly superior indicator. So I could give up the VHI indicator panel.

As a substitute, whenever I tried to do a 3 decision omniscript color plot in the price pane color chart I found that if the first decision type proved false then omniscript would exit without testing the second decision type. That is, apparently one type decisioning only. See" currently below."

Then see "what I would like below."

color charts > price > background

(what my omni script is currently and it works)

1. WT_ZZ(2.5,14) = 1 (print light red)
2. WT_ZZ(2.5,14) = -1 (print light green)

(what I would like is to print a yellow (purple) background from 3:15 to 4:00PM ET) or

1. (( BarHour() >= 15 AND BarMinute() >= 15 ) AND ( BarHour() < 16 )) (print yellow)
2. WT_ZZ(2.5,14) = 1 (print light red)
3. WT_ZZ(2.5,14) = -1 (pring light green)

For the "I would like" I get yellow, or white (grey) but never light red or green). So I implemented the VHI panel to get the end of day purple color alert. See the upload of 4/9 11:49
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Subject : RE: OT 2017 Indicator Tabs
Posted : 4/11/2017 4:29 PM
Post #28516 - In reply to #28515

(what I would like is to print a yellow (purple) background from 3:15 to 4:00PM ET) or

1. (( BarHour() >= 15 AND BarMinute() >= 15 ) AND ( BarHour() < 16 )) (print yellow)
2. WT_ZZ(2.5,14) = 1 (print light red)
3. WT_ZZ(2.5,14) = -1 (pring light green)


The problem is 2 & 3 are basically opposites so those pretty much color the entire chart. And the Color Charts feature isn't 'smart' when multiple formulas overlap & want to color the same area. It gives priority to the first or 2nd formula.

I think I have a work around for you though. From your description, I think this is what you want. You can put this on any pane or the price pane, but I put it on the MFI pane. In order to do it, you have to add the 3 Color Charts in the following order:



Then it always color the last 45min of each day purple, though you might need to use 15,15 instead of 14,15 - cause of different time zone, not sure. Then it gives you the WT_ZZ that you want, if I'm understand you correctly.



Attached file : ColorCharts.jpg (13KB - 315 downloads)
Attached file : ColorCharts2.jpg (86KB - 321 downloads)

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Hey Ed!

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Subject : RE: OT 2017 Indicator Tabs
Posted : 4/11/2017 10:42 PM
Post #28517 - In reply to #28498

I eliminated 2 indicator panes (VHI and CHP) but I find that even with 4 indicators, more than 50% of the OT2017 chart is taken up with indicator panes and tabs. That's a lot more than taking away a little.

Frankly I'm tempted to "jump off" and stay with OT2016. OT2017 does very little for me.
Attached file : Screen Shot 04-11-17 at 11.35 PM.PNG (184KB - 45 downloads)
Attached file : Screen Shot 04-11-17 at 11.35 PM 001.PNG (129KB - 44 downloads)

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Subject : RE: OT 2017 Indicator Tabs
Posted : 4/12/2017 1:19 AM
Post #28518 - In reply to #28516

thanks Barry you've been tremendous help!
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Subject : RE: OT 2017 Indicator Tabs
Posted : 4/12/2017 10:13 AM
Post #28519 - In reply to #28517

Hey Ed, before you give up, I'm still not sure that you tried resizing your panes. In your OT2016 screenshots you have your Woodies & MACD panes extremely tight while in your new screenshot those panes are much wider. If you size your panes tighter (not as tight as 2016, but tighter than you have it) it should give you more of the chart back, at least back to how much chart space you had in OT2016.


Attached file : Compare.jpg (57KB - 264 downloads)

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Hey Ed!

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Subject : RE: OT 2017 Indicator Tabs
Posted : 4/15/2017 3:08 PM
Post #28523 - In reply to #28498

Giving it some thought, I've decided to jump off the OT wagon and close out with OT2016.

OT2017 with it's indicator tab "enhancement" is at best an uninspired and unimaginative solution to a problem which now locks OT into a constricted indicator space management. In sum, I think it's a lame enhancement. Worse, it damages the visuals which are really at the heart of a charting program. The trader should trade what he sees not what OT programmers choose for him to see.

I propose the following alternative solutions. First I'm going to assume that much of OT is built on an object and method paradigm. If so than a much superior and open ended solution to the problem of too many indicator panes would have been to:

1. if importance is highlighted, leverage the Focus List object into an additional Indicator List object with Pane Number ID with similar properties to how the Focus List is managed with it's Wrench ability to add and subtract columns.

2. using View > Chart Options > open the tab settings for the Indicators and Systems objects and then leverage the properties currently found in Color Charts the Indicators tab and the Systems tab to accomplish a matrix of Indicators per Indicator Panes. Both these current tabs almost do what the OT2017 lame upgrade of Indicator Tabs is trying to do in it's highly destructive manner. Another benefit of this alternate approach is to leave open extensions of Indicator Management on a dedicated object instead of awkwardly managing Indicator complexity in the valuable chart visual space.

3. Note that the View > Chart Options tabs for Indicators and Systems already have implemented a double right click focus on a pane of indicator / system properties which is hot enough to adjust the properties on that focus view which will populate on the visuals in the chart panes upon a close of the View > Chart Options page.


Also, I'm making a safe-store of OT2016 and will assume that a CD containing the files indicated on the forum massage of "Upgrade to OmniTrader 2016" of 11/24/15 #24812 would be sufficient to recreate OT2016 on another computer should I need to. Please confirm.

Finally, I'm forwarding a copy of this post as a Forum PM to Ed Downs, Hans van der Wal and Jeff Drake.


[Edited by Hey Ed! on 4/15/2017 3:27 PM]

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Subject : RE: OT 2017 Indicator Tabs
Posted : 4/17/2017 12:57 PM
Post #28524 - In reply to #28523

Thank you for submitting these suggestions. I'll make sure they get routed through the proper channels for a future upgrade.

Also, yes, this thread has all you need to install OT2016 on another machine.

Lastly, I did learn of another possible work-around solution in 2017, & that is to adjust the font and/or font size under Chart Options/Chart to a smaller font or size from Arial, 8pt, Bold. This allows you to make the label a smaller size, in turn making the label spacing tighter.

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Hey Ed!

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Subject : RE: OT 2017 Indicator Tabs
Posted : 10/23/2017 3:17 PM
Post #29672 - In reply to #28498

I have a workaround to this problem in OT2017, sort of. The motivation to use a 4 panel display (from OT2016) was to achieve a multiple time frame view of a developing trading opportunity. The idea being that a trade signal replicating (in some appropriate manner up and down) in multiple timeframes has a better chance of follow through.

Well, suprisingly enough, I was able to achieve that trade evaluation ability while focused on one base time frame by using Daryl Guppy's GMMA price overlay. In Guppy's approach, these moving averages each represent a timeframe (sort of) and through a prnciple of statistical synchronicity, all together produce an identifiable trading signal evaluation ability. You still need a separate trade signalling technique but the GMMA addition provides a multiple time frame trade signal evaluation context. CLICK!

Additionally, I was using the Choppiness Indicator and a OmniLang version of Carters's TTM Squeeze indicator to capture occassions of absence of trend (drift). With Guppy's GMMA both these indicators are made redundant by Guppy's "short term" grouping (in any timeframe context). Their compression replicates both Chop and Squeeze situations but is also better represented in a Guppy visual presentation. So these two indicators are dispatched.

Guppy's entire approach is explained in his Trend Trading book (which Nirvana used to develop the GMMA plug-in). Also see his Trend Volatility Management DVD and his GMMA CD workshop (hard to find).

There is still the same problem on Indicator tabbing in OT2017. It's just that, for my purpose, I worked around it by lucking out with Guppy's GMMA. The gist is that OT2017 effectively limits you to a two panel display with a vertical windows orientation requiremnent and a circumspect number of indicators (three in my case) to be presented at any one time.

See attachemnts.
Attached file : Screen Shot 10-23-17 at 04.08 PM.PNG (196KB - 39 downloads)
Attached file : Screen Shot 10-23-17 at 03.29 PM 001.PNG (129KB - 39 downloads)
Attached file : Screen Shot 10-23-17 at 03.58 PM.PNG (166KB - 41 downloads)

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