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TP "Delay Opening Orders" function does not work
Last Activity 5/11/2023 2:59 AM
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SteveL

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Subject : TP "Delay Opening Orders" function does not work
Posted : 9/5/2016 11:28 PM
Post #36397

See the "Questions Regarding GXT Transition to Gar Wood" thread for earlier discussion of this problem:

http://www.omnitrader.com/currentclients/omnivestforum/thread-view.asp?threadid=7737&posts=68

Keith M. asked: "... and opening orders placed as market orders 15 minutes later?"
Answer: No

I have observed the following behavior:

All orders are submitted at the same time, and there is no attempt by TP to retry rejected orders. Opening orders are not submitted after closing orders. The "Delayed Opening Orders" function does not work. Period.

The consequence is that opening MOO orders which exceed the available equity in my IRA are rejected immediately by IB, and TP does not attempt to resubmit those orders after the market has opened and closing orders have freed up equity.

When I have set my order entry time to 30 seconds after market open, the orders have been accepted and executed successfully (I think opening and closing orders had the same timestamp, but I'll have to watch timestamps more closely to confirm that).

Mark H. has experienced at least one case where his open order failed when submitted after market open due to insufficient funds, even though it would have succeeded if the close orders had completed first. Personally, I have not yet experienced that particular result when configuring TP to execute the orders after the market has opened.

[Edited by SteveL on 9/6/2016 8:04 AM]

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kmcintyre

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Subject : RE: TP "Delay Opening Orders" function does not wo
Posted : 9/6/2016 1:38 AM
Post #36399 - In reply to #36397

Thanks Steve!
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Steve2

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Subject : RE: TP "Delay Opening Orders" function does not wo
Posted : 9/6/2016 2:11 PM
Post #36401 - In reply to #36399

Barry, could you please update us on when this will be fixed. It's a pretty big issue for some of us that are not always around at market open to manually fix things.

Thanks,
Steve
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Barry Cohen

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Subject : RE: TP "Delay Opening Orders" function does not wo
Posted : 9/6/2016 2:28 PM
Post #36402 - In reply to #36401

I'm trying to see if we can get the behavior of that setting back to how it used to be (where it places all opening orders to the user set time), but I don't know when just yet. I'll post an update when I know more.
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kmcintyre

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Subject : RE: TP "Delay Opening Orders" function does not wo
Posted : 9/6/2016 3:31 PM
Post #36404 - In reply to #36402

Just another confirmation -

This AM I had TP configured to place MOO orders before the open, and delay opening order until 15 minutes after the open.

All orders were placed MOO prior to the open.

Cheers

Keith

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Barry Cohen

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Subject : RE: TP "Delay Opening Orders" function does not wo
Posted : 9/6/2016 3:36 PM
Post #36405 - In reply to #36404

This post describes what the setting is currently supposed to do. I'm pretty sure that it still does, but only when the max exposure setting is set to the right percent. The problem is it's very difficult to know what to set it to, plus it changes each day, so it may work one day & not the next.
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kmcintyre

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Subject : RE: TP "Delay Opening Orders" function does not wo
Posted : 9/6/2016 3:47 PM
Post #36406 - In reply to #36405

Barry,

I'm running standalone TP. Looking forward to server TP and the metered opening orders. Has the server TP UI changed to reflect the different feature operation? (The time is now a limit, versus a start time, right? And it's not a "delay until" but a "buy as soon as possible"...)

Keith

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SteveL

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Subject : RE: TP "Delay Opening Orders" function does not wo
Posted : 9/6/2016 3:54 PM
Post #36407 - In reply to #36405

Hi, Barry.
The referenced post describes a nice solution. But, I have not seen that work in practice with the standalone TP.

Can you recommend specific settings that you have seen work for an IB IRA margin account? I have my OmniVest configured for 95% max % of equity, and account type set to Margin Account. What do you suggest/recommend for the TP configuration for Exposure:MaxEquity% and Delay Opening Orders time?
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Barry Cohen

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Subject : RE: TP "Delay Opening Orders" function does not wo
Posted : 9/6/2016 4:04 PM
Post #36408 - In reply to #36406

Sometimes the server TP can be newer since it's easier to update the server, but currently the desktop TP & server TP are both the same version.

The time is now a limit, versus a start time, right? And it's not a "delay until" but a "buy as soon as possible


Yes, that's another way to put it.
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Barry Cohen

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Subject : RE: TP "Delay Opening Orders" function does not wo
Posted : 9/6/2016 4:14 PM
Post #36409 - In reply to #36407

Steve, on a cash account, you would set it to 100%. But on margin accounts, I really don't know since a flat 200% isn't accurate due to broker/symbol rules & requirements. For instance some symbols are not marginable & are 1:1, & some have higher than 2:1 like certain ETFs.
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SteveL

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Subject : RE: TP "Delay Opening Orders" function does not wo
Posted : 9/6/2016 4:29 PM
Post #36410 - In reply to #36409

Hi, Barry.

This is an IB IRA "margin" account. So, 100% is the max. But there is no settlement delay. Perhaps I should have that set as a Cash account, rather than Margin?? Can you explain the difference between Cash vs. Margin with 100% limit? Also, the new configuration panel does not include the settlement delay configuration option. Where'd it go?

And, how does the OV setting interact with the TP setting with regard to the "Delay Opening Orders" option?

OK. So, I currently have my IRA account configured in OV as a "Margin" account with 95% max. And TP is set with 100% max, and Delay Opening Orders is 9:40AM. With this configuration, the current standalone TP has not resubmitted rejected MOO opening orders.

It sounds like you expect that to work. I'll send you TP logs next time this fails. Anything else you would need, e.g. IBG logs? Anything I should configure IBG to capture the pertinent info?

[Edited by SteveL on 9/6/2016 4:31 PM]

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Mark Holstius

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Subject : RE: TP "Delay Opening Orders" function does not wo
Posted : 9/6/2016 4:38 PM
Post #36411 - In reply to #36409

Can I suggest a setting of less than 100%...???

My understanding with a $10,000 Account example:

If OV thinks you have $10,000 in the account (BP set at 100%), it'll plan on buying 100 shares of a stock that closed at $100.

If the stock goes up to $102 at the open, that 100 share order will then be too big for the account ($10,200).

So, I've been using 95%...

IMHO, that would mean OV would think I have $9,500 and put in an order for 95 shares based on the $100 closing price.

At the Open of $102 x 95 = $9,690 and the order still goes thru...???

Just thinking - but maybe I'm confusing OV BP with TP setting,
Mark


[Edited by Mark Holstius on 9/6/2016 4:43 PM]

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Barry Cohen

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Subject : RE: TP "Delay Opening Orders" function does not wo
Posted : 9/6/2016 4:44 PM
Post #36412 - In reply to #36410

Can you explain the difference between Cash vs. Margin with 100% limit?


Do you mean the OmniVest Account setting? I believe that's only used when creating a new account from Explore Portfolios to provide different initial settings, otherwise I don't believe it has a function.

Also, the new configuration panel does not include the settlement delay configuration option. Where'd it go?


It didn't work correctly, so it's hidden for now until it can be improved/fixed.

And, how does the OV setting interact with the TP setting with regard to the "Delay Opening Orders" option?


OV doesn't do anything regarding TP settings except the one setting that transmits the current equity from the broker to OV.

OK. So, I currently have my IRA account configured in OV as a "Margin" account with 95% max. And TP is set with 100% max, and Delay Opening Orders is 9:40AM. With this configuration, the current standalone TP has not resubmitted rejected MOO opening orders.


There isn't a configuration that will get that setting to work on a consistent basis for margin accounts.

It sounds like you expect that to work. I'll send you TP logs next time this fails. Anything else you would need, e.g. IBG logs? Anything I should configure IBG to capture the pertinent info?


That's ok, I don't need them, but thanks. We already know it's an issue that we need to change.
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SteveL

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Subject : RE: TP "Delay Opening Orders" function does not wo
Posted : 9/6/2016 4:44 PM
Post #36413 - In reply to #36411

Mark,
I understand the example. That's why OV is set to 95%. And, why I was asking where TP should be set. Since OV determines the order size, it seems to me that TP should be set (as Barry suggested) to 100%. Yes, the order could still be rejected if the share price soared at the open, but the 95% OV setting should provide sufficient buffer in most cases.

OR, does the TP setting affect the order size? I didn't think it did.

The orders that have failed, have NOT failed due to insufficient funds AFTER the closing orders completed. They failed due to insufficient funds prior to market open, and were never resubmitted.
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SteveL

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Subject : RE: TP "Delay Opening Orders" function does not wo
Posted : 9/6/2016 5:05 PM
Post #36414 - In reply to #36413

Mark,
Your example prompted me to again examine my TP settings, and I had it set to the wrong value. There are two TP configuration options which affect the order size - choose one of the following:
Size by % of Equity
OR
Match OmniVest Shares

I meant to select "Match OmniVest Shares". I have now set that option correctly. Hopefully, that will fix my problem. I'll report if/when the "rejected MOO opening orders prior to open" scenario recurs.
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Mark Holstius

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Subject : RE: TP "Delay Opening Orders" function does not wo
Posted : 9/6/2016 5:37 PM
Post #36415 - In reply to #36414

Sounds good Steve - but just be sure your OV Account $$ matches your IB Account $$, otherwise you could get a surprise...

i.e. If you have your OV Account set up to start at some date in the past & it's "grown in value" so it has more equity than the IB Account, then the trade size in shares will be off to the high side.

However, if OV is taking a 10% of Equity position and you have "% Of Equity" in the TP, then you're safe - it really doesn't matter what the equity is in OV.

Does that make sense?
Mark
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BrianD

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Subject : RE: TP "Delay Opening Orders" function does not wo
Posted : 9/6/2016 9:16 PM
Post #36416 - In reply to #36415

Assuming "Update OV Current Balance" sets a basis for Match OV Shares. Then the basis must be(?) from:

- 'Trades' web page Account's 'Current Balance'
- or Simulation's 'Ending Equity'

Which is it?
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SteveL

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Subject : RE: TP "Delay Opening Orders" function does not wo
Posted : 9/6/2016 10:57 PM
Post #36417 - In reply to #36416

Brian (and Mark),

OmniVest maintains an "Ending Equity" in the last column of each account on the top level account page where all your accounts are displayed, and also a "Current Balance" at the top of the Trades page for each account.

The "Current Balance" is synchronized with my TP account because in the TP Trade Settings configuration I have selected "Update OmniVest Current Balance."

With this configuration, OmniVest is sizing the trade based on the "Current Balance" (not the "Ending Equity").
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Barry Cohen

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Subject : RE: TP "Delay Opening Orders" function does not wo
Posted : 9/9/2016 2:24 PM
Post #36436 - In reply to #36412

We are reverting the delay open orders functionality soon. This prior functionality will return...

Delay Opening Orders — Set the time for the opening orders to be sent to the broker if you would like your opening orders to occur at a later time than your closing orders. Doing so allows time for closing orders to fill and free up buying power first so that new opening orders do not get rejected due to lack of buying power.

It's still not the best solution possible, but it seems to be a better alternative to the current functionality & it's an easy change to make without impacting dev resources.

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SteveL

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Subject : RE: TP "Delay Opening Orders" function does not wo
Posted : 9/9/2016 2:51 PM
Post #36437 - In reply to #36436

Sounds good to me. Thanks.
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Aaron

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Subject : RE: TP "Delay Opening Orders" function does not wo
Posted : 9/15/2016 10:12 PM
Post #36473 - In reply to #36397

Any update on the Delay Opening Orders functionality returning? Missing one to 3 trades a day... please help.
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Barry Cohen

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Subject : RE: TP "Delay Opening Orders" function does not wo
Posted : 9/16/2016 10:18 AM
Post #36474 - In reply to #36473

Very soon, Aaron. Probably next week.
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James McNeill

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Subject : RE: TP "Delay Opening Orders" function does not wo
Posted : 12/16/2016 6:33 PM
Post #36676 - In reply to #36474

Hello Barry

I have my TP > Trade Settings > Order Submission > Delay Opening Orders set to 9:45:30.
My execution is taken at 9:30
I thought this had been fixed ?

Jim
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James McNeill

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Subject : RE: TP "Delay Opening Orders" function does not wo
Posted : 12/21/2016 6:25 PM
Post #36679 - In reply to #36474

Barry,

Any update on this feature.
Does not seem to be working for my trades


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Barry Cohen

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Subject : RE: TP "Delay Opening Orders" function does not wo
Posted : 1/4/2017 12:14 PM
Post #36687 - In reply to #36679

It should be working, James. I see that you're using the desktop TP. Is it on Pre-Release 4F (Build 1.4.22.0)?
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