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Questions Regarding GXT Transition to Gar Wood
70 replies, 5508 viewings
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OmniVest User Forums
OmniVest Technical Support
Questions Regarding GXT Transition to Gar Wood
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Last Activity 5/11/2023 2:59 AM 70 replies, 5508 viewings |
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Steve2 Elite    Posts: 750 Joined: 10/11/2012 Location: Annapolis, MD  User Profile |
There are four cases that I'm aware of where IB will cancel or reject a MOO order. 1. You have insufficient buying power even though you may also have submitted some closing orders. To resolve this, you need to configure TP to Delay Opening Orders. When configured this way TP will submit closing orders first and then meter in opening orders as the closing orders execute and buying power becomes available. 2. You are trying to open a short position and stock is not available. To resolve this, TP has to be configured to submit market orders rather than MOO orders. If you do this, IB will hold the order until the stock is available and the order will only be cancelled if the stock is not available by the end of the day. IB is very good about finding stock so this almost never happens but the order may not execute until some time after market open at whatever price the stock is at that time. 3. You are trying to open a position in a thinly traded stock and the size of your position is greater than (I think) 10% of the average daily volume of the stock on the exchanges that IB uses for trading that stock. Note that this can be much less than the average daily volume of the stock across all exchanges on which it trades. To resolve this, TP has to be configured to submit market orders rather than MOO orders. This manifests itself as a cancelled order with the reason being something like Order Limit Size Exceeded. 4. An order is rejected because it exceeds the order size limits (shares or amount) that are set in the IB Gateway. To resolve this, just increase the IB Gateway limits. I don't know if this same thing can happen with the Nirvana FIX server. This is a question for Nirvana. The first three of these cases are independent of whether you are using a Gar Wood account or submitting orders via the Nirvana FIX server. If you know of any other cases where orders get cancelled or rejected, please let me know. Steve | |||||||
| kmcintyre Elite Posts: 890 Joined: 10/11/2012 Location: Portland, OR User Profile |
Great explanation of why orders can be cancelled. Thanks! I've been trading MOO orders so my entries/exits match the prices reported by OV. I've not seem many cancelled orders, but the Flexible By Design portfolio trades a lot or leveraged ETFs at a fairly high % invested. I might diverge from Larry's posted settings and go with delayed market opening orders. (Care to share your settings?) So with Gar Wood will I still be able to use Mobile TWS to monitor my account positions and trades? (I would assume so...) Keith | |||||||
| Barry Cohen Icon  Posts: 1844 Joined: 10/11/2012 User Profile |
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| Steve2 Elite Posts: 750 Joined: 10/11/2012 Location: Annapolis, MD User Profile |
Here are my Trade Settings (margin account). Having the start of my trading window be 9:30:00 AM will cause TP to submit orders as market orders not MOO. Steve [Edited by Steve2 on 9/2/2016 4:37 PM]  Attached file : Trade Settings.png (40KB - 596 downloads) | |||||||
| kmcintyre Elite Posts: 890 Joined: 10/11/2012 Location: Portland, OR User Profile |
I've been waiting for IB support on Nirvana TP servers. It sounds like this will be a vast improvement over TP/IBG/TeamView running on a netbook in my office! Cheers Keith | |||||||
| kmcintyre Elite Posts: 890 Joined: 10/11/2012 Location: Portland, OR User Profile |
0) Will I need a GXT account? (I think not, but...) 1) Will I need to create a Gar Wood account? Or do I simply link my IB account to Gar Wood so Nirvana can send my server TP trades via FIX? 2) Will I be able grant Gar Wood trading rights to an existing IB account without loosing my ability to also place trades using the same funds? Or will Gar Wood funds need to be segregated from IB TWS funds? 3) Will I be able to ACH funds to/from IB via my existing ACH instructions? Or will I need to go through Gar Wood to make deposits/withdrawals? I should probably wait for the dust to settle on transitioning GXT customers to Gar Wood/IB, but server TP support for IB has been on the wish list for a long time. I'm excited! Cheers Keith | |||||||
| SteveL Veteran Posts: 189 Joined: 10/11/2012 Location: Boulder, CO User Profile |
re: your 1st item My experience (with IB IRA margin accounts) with the current TP (thru PR4E released 8/31/2016), and confirmed by Barry that this is a known problem, is that it does NOT "meter in opening orders as the closing orders execute and buying power becomes available." If you configure TP to submit your order after market open, then all orders will be accepted and execute (assuming you have sufficient equity after the sell orders). But submitting the orders prior to market open, IB will reject all orders which will cause your equity to be exceeded prior to sell orders executing, and TP will not "meter in" those rejected orders. The only way to place the rejected orders is to manually intervene (in my experience). If you have experience to refute this, I would really appreciate knowing the specifics of your TP configuration. Thanks. | |||||||
| Steve2 Elite Posts: 750 Joined: 10/11/2012 Location: Annapolis, MD User Profile |
Thanks for bringing this up. I should have mentioned the bug in Delay Opening Orders that will need to be fixed before this will work. I'm currently just using margin accounts and submitting orders at market open works because IB just enforces maintenance margin at that point which gives you 4X buying power so execution order doesn't matter unless you are opening a bunch of leveraged ETFs or short positions. For IRA Margin accounts, does IB accept all orders if submitted at or after market open? If so, will they cancel an opening order if the execution sequence doesn't free enough equity to keep you from "borrowing" for a second or two? Steve [Edited by Steve2 on 9/2/2016 10:26 PM] | |||||||
| SteveL Veteran Posts: 189 Joined: 10/11/2012 Location: Boulder, CO User Profile |
For an IRA margin account, IB DOES accept all orders if submitted after market open. I haven't tried exactly at market open. I've delayed 15 seconds, and all the orders (opening and closing) are accepted. Since my max is set to 95% of equity, the orders placed by TP don't exceed my max equity after all are executed. I have the same question you have about whether equity is exceeded for a second or two and it makes me wonder what would happen if the orders did result in exceeding 100% of equity after all are executed. Anyone know the answer? Steve L. | |||||||
| Mark Holstius Elite Posts: 744 Joined: 10/11/2012 Location: Sleepy Hollow, IL User Profile |
Just last Friday I had an order rejected in an IB "IRA Margin" account for that reason. I have the TP set to enter Market orders at 1 second after the Open. PEZ was a sell and XRT was a buy (approx same size) and the buy side (XRT) didn't happen due to "Cash Available"... Looking forward to the sequencing happening correctly, Mark [Edited by Mark Holstius on 9/4/2016 4:24 PM] Attached file : IB Reject.png (111KB - 558 downloads) | |||||||
| SteveL Veteran Posts: 189 Joined: 10/11/2012 Location: Boulder, CO User Profile |
Thanks. Your example demonstrates that market orders can fail after market open, just like MOO orders. So far, when I've had TP set to enter market orders at 30 or 15 seconds after market open, the open/buy orders have not been rejected. Perhaps that has just been lucky execution order (i.e., closing orders completing before opening orders). I haven't tried 1 second after market open. I wonder if the "closeness" to the market open was a factor in your order rejection? I'll experiment with the delay over the next couple weeks (assuming sufficient opening orders are generated to produce the scenario). Thanks, Steve | |||||||
| Mark Holstius Elite Posts: 744 Joined: 10/11/2012 Location: Sleepy Hollow, IL User Profile |
Yup, could've been lucky as far as order timing. I think it's a problem that we just don't see often because you have to be maxed out in the account when the trade happens (which I was). I know this sounds obvious, but if there's enough equity left to take the order, the problem just won't come up. Thanks for checking some more in the future - I'll watch it too. Maybe you're right about the time and "avoiding the Opening rush" by a few more seconds...??? Mark | |||||||
| James McNeill Regular Posts: 68 Joined: 3/8/2013 Location: Victoria, BC, Canada User Profile |
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| Mark Holstius Elite Posts: 744 Joined: 10/11/2012 Location: Sleepy Hollow, IL User Profile |
Anyone want to comment or contribute more info / experiences? I'm hoping that I can extract some similar information with the IB trade data collection project I've got going that I posted in this thread; http://www.omnitrader.com/currentclients/omnivestforum/thread-view.asp?threadid=7751&posts=12 Many thanks to those of you that've taken the time to send me your data via that Zoho spreadsheet... Mark | |||||||
| BrianD Legend Posts: 302 Joined: 2/23/2013 Location: Grand Rapids, MI User Profile |
Seeing how Delay Opening Orders does not work, probably having at anything greater than 9:30:01 for Order Submission does not make any difference as all the orders will be sent at same time? BTW, Account wanted to be 100% invested (my TP set at 99% Max Equity - maybe too close). Good news is it only happened once this month, my Account is a higher volume (~40 TPM) RTM configuration, and overall the entries/exits have been marginally better than OV tracked Simulated paper Opens and Closes. | |||||||
| kmcintyre Elite Posts: 890 Joined: 10/11/2012 Location: Portland, OR User Profile |
So if I submit orders prior to the market open Delay Opening Orders until 15 minutes after market open... Am I hearing that the closing orders won't be placed MOO and the opening orders placed as market orders 15 minutes later? (I understand this isn't as elegant as metering orders in as buying power becomes available, but it's something...) Keith | |||||||
| SteveL Veteran Posts: 189 Joined: 10/11/2012 Location: Boulder, CO User Profile |
I've opened a new thread to discuss the "Delay Opening Order" function not working. See this thread for a response to your question: http://www.omnitrader.com/currentclients/omnivestforum/thread-view.asp?threadid=7772&posts=1#36397 [Edited by SteveL on 9/6/2016 8:05 AM] | |||||||
| Mark Holstius Elite Posts: 744 Joined: 10/11/2012 Location: Sleepy Hollow, IL User Profile |
Good morning Steve - and thanks for "breaking off" this discussion into another thread. Your links didn't work for me, so I experimented with your posted links and mine and it looks like the Nirvana Forum won't jump to the links anyone adds to a post unless there's a blank line prior to the imbedded link. I didn't realize that until I found that your links didn't work (and mine did). Not sure, but I suspect your links will work if you edit your posts and add an empty line between the text and the links...??? Mark [Edited by Mark Holstius on 9/6/2016 6:25 AM] | |||||||
| Angela Duran Veteran Posts: 168 Joined: 10/11/2012 Location: Nirvana Systems User Profile |
No.
No, you do not need to create an account at Gar Wood. Once we are ready to bring accounts under Gar Wood, we will send you instructions to complete the simple linking process.
Yes, in most cases you can link multiple IB accounts. F type accounts (friends and family, some advisor accounts) cannot be linked. Those accounts will have to be opened directly through Gar Wood. You will continue to have TWS access and there is no need to separate funds.
I will have to check with the broker on this.
We are too Keith. | |||||||
| BrianD Legend Posts: 302 Joined: 2/23/2013 Location: Grand Rapids, MI User Profile |
I had to ask IB to link the accounts. Requested through IB Support message. Took IB a few days to figure out, but once completed, it was an instant transfer. [Edited by BrianD on 9/28/2016 4:20 PM] | |||||||
| Tim Lambie Member Posts: 6 Joined: 10/11/2012 User Profile |
Can you please confirm your understanding of the Garwood commission structure. There are many suggestions in the forum, including mine, as to what the commissions are, based on everyone's experience but, no one is suggesting that they are receiving a commission structure as attractive as the one outlined below. I realize it was not final but, I have not found a final pricing link, if there is one. Thanks, Tim Originally written by 109547 on 8/19/2016 3:31 PM Steve, You can refer to the top level of IB's North American Tiered structure linked below. Gar Wood will not tier down for higher share sizes, the top line is our base commission. We will post a link to pricing as soon as we can but this will help. https://www.interactivebrokers.com/en/index.php?f=1590&p=stocks2 |
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